Stephen Korsman
2006-07-15 09:31:56 UTC
In his Endtime Issues (#141, http://tinyurl.com/osynp) Samuele Bacchiocchi
again (http://tinyurl.com/dama6) criticises the papal stand on moral issues,
and the commitment of Catholics to the support of Catholic moral teaching.
It looks like moral strength is a sign of the end-time evil power. Or so
many Adventists would have us believe.
He also interprets HH Pope Benedict XVI's promotion of Sunday in a sinister
way - whereas in reality, the pope is merely promoting better devotion to
God in a way that Bacchiocchi does not like. Bacchiocchi has a history of
such peculiar interpretations. (http://tinyurl.com/dama6,
http://tinyurl.com/rywub)
Bacchiocchi says of the ecumenical progress:
"For example, Bishop Eero Huovinen of the Finnish Lutheran Church, told the
Eucharistic Congress: "We Finnish Lutheran wish to be part of the Catholic
Church." He expressed agreement with the theme of the congress by affirming
that "Lutheran cannot live without the sacrament of the Eucharist." He
closed saying: "From the bottom of my heart, I would like to anticipate the
day in which Lutherans and Catholics, together, unite in a visible way."
"Bishop Huovinen's statement is significant for two reasons. First, it shows
that the Catholic promotion of Sunday as the day of the eucharistic
celebration, serves as a rallying point for Christian unity under the
leadership of the Catholic Church. Second, it reveals that the historical
doctrinal differences that have divided Protestantism and Catholicism are
largely ignored. Part of this development is due to the historic Joint
Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, which is an important
agreement between Lutherans and Roman Catholics."
Once again, Bacchiocchi demonstrates his ignorance on this matter. As I've
pointed out before (http://tinyurl.com/dama6), he doesn't realise that the
Finnish Lutherans have not changed their position on the Eucharist (or
Sunday observance) due to interaction with Catholicism. The Finnish
Lutherans have always been much closer to Catholicism in doctrine and
practice regarding both the Eucharist and Apostolic Succession than
mainstream Lutherans. Mainstream Lutherans in fact do not believe in
Apostolic Succession, whereas the Finnish Lutherans do. It should be made
clear that this bishop's statement reflects centuries of belief amongst
Finnish Lutherans, and not a movement away from historical protests.
Ecumenism is about understanding each other instead of doing what is popular
in many Adventist circles - feeding people incorrect information in order to
promote disunity.
Creating a climate of respect and mutual acceptance is slowly, but surely,
working. The Adventist camp that promotes their traditional propaganda has
decreased, and many now see Ellen White and her writings as flawed, affected
by the anti-Catholic climate of their day, and no longer the absolute
authority the more traditional Adventists of the past have seen them as.
The anti-Catholic propaganda has dwindled - because Adventists are starting
to learn the truth about Catholicism. The days where they blindly accepted
their pastors' claims that "Catholics worship Mary" and "the Pope claims to
be God" and "the Pope changed the Sabbath to Sunday" are becoming history.
When Adventists find out what Catholicism really believes, and leave the
propaganda behind them, they can't but accept us Catholics as fellow
Christians. Bacchiocchi, in a way, whether wittingly or not, has helped
this process. Which is why the more conspiracy theorist part of the
pro-division faction in Adventism sometimes label him as a Jesuit
infiltrator.
Bacchiocchi bewails the fact that Protestants consider Catholics to be
Christians. Lately the question of whether to re-classify Adventism as a
cult (http://tinyurl.com/jlkqf) instead of a Christian denomination has been
asked more and more often in Evangelical Protestant circles. Is he just
trying to put Catholicism in the same boat?
Worship through Mary, saints, objects, shrines, icons, crucifixes, or
statues, is condemned by the Scripture as idolatry.
Maybe it is condemned in the Clear Word Bible (http://tinyurl.com/prsvm),
but not in the real thing. Worship of false gods, yes. Worship of false
gods in the form of idols, yes. The use of physical means for worship - no.
The Bible is full of evidence for shrines, sacramentals, statues permitted
by God, and grace coming through physical objects. Yes, even the New
Testament contains this. (http://tinyurl.com/syr58,
http://tinyurl.com/kp3d8, http://tinyurl.com/mwyjr,) Bacchiocchi is willing
to make sweeping - and inaccurate - statements about what the Bible says in
one place, without bothering to put real Catholic teaching and the Bible's
complete witness side by side and compare them.
Bacchiocchi's problem with the Catholic way of experiencing the divine is
not really what he says it is - after all, his own denomination does the
same thing in other ways - the Sabbath, diet laws, Ellen White's writings.
And at an Adventist service I attended, the congregation knelt in reverence
when the Bible was raised for them to see before it was read. Were they
worshipping the Bible? Were they allowing a visual, physical form of
worship to distract them from the real worship of God? Or is this a valid
form of respect that can be paid to the Bible, and thereby instill respect
for it in the hearts of those who believe it?
Bacchiocchi's real problem with the Catholic way of experiencing the divine
is simply becaused it is Catholic. He doesn't spend his time attacking
similar things in other denominations, or in his own. Nor does he spend his
time attacking similar things seen in the Bible - whereas, if he wants to be
consistent, he should be doing just that.
His section title to this section is "Revival of Marian Worship." He should
really know better than to use terms like that - but it serves his purpose,
which is to instill disapproval of Catholicism. As I said before, ecumenism
is about understanding, not about misinformation. This, from Bacchiocchi,
is about misinformation.
Catholics do not worship Mary. To claim they do is as ridiculous as
claiming that Adventists worship the Sabbath or Ellen White.
Yet, in a sense, they do. The term "worship" is not restricted to the
adoration due to God alone. In many places in the world, judges and
magistrates are called, "Your worship." Lovers are said to worship each
other, or to worship the ground walked on by the ones they love. In some
contexts, the word "worship" refers to giving honour or respect. This is
perfectly acceptable in contexts outside of the adoration of God. The Bible
itself contains many such examples - applying to humans, as well as sacred
objects. Those who hold the anti-Catholic position either have not read
these passages in the Bible, or simply dissociate them from the issue of
Catholicism, and never make the logical connection between the two
practices.
The problem is that, in our current language usage, the term "worship" has
become a lot more restrictive, especially in a religious context. When
people today see the term "worship," they associate it solely with the
adoration due to God alone. And this is exactly why Bacchiocchi's use of
the word is misleading. Many Adventists believe that Catholics do indeed
worship Mary in the way we worship God. Bacchiocchi is playing to that
misunderstanding.
Adventists, on the other hand, do give reverence to the Bible, to Ellen
White, and to the Sabbath. They can therefore be said to be worshipping
these things. But it needs to be pointed out that, in this context, the
term "worship" is not being used in the strict modern Christian
interpretation of the word. What Adventists really engage in is a form of
respect - not adoration of the divine. That they reserve for God alone.
And the same is true of Catholics.
The Catholic "worship" of Mary and the saints, etc., is simply what the
Bible shows is a legitimate form of honour. It is not the same as our
worship of God. Just as in the Bible the externals may have resembled that
worship of God, so today Adventists may see similarities - but they do not
see what is in the hearts of Catholics, and, not understanding how Catholics
experience their faith, assume they are the same type of worship. The vast
majority of Catholics, understanding that experience, can easily
differentiate between the two, and know what they are worshipping and what
they are merely paying respect to.
Those Catholics who don't understand this can end up somewhat horrified by
what they are doing, not realising that their actions are condemned by
Catholic teaching, and assume that the idolatry they were guilty of is also
what is going on in the hearts of other Catholics ... and so they loudly
proclaim that Catholics worship Mary, without really having understood what
is really taught. They end up in the same group as those who never manage
to make the logical connection between Catholic practice and the biblical
passages showing honour to non-divine entities.
So, just as Catholics give a biblically permissable form of respect to Mary,
the saints, etc., so Adventists do the same with their traditional icons.
Does this mean that Adventists are engaging in idolatrous worship? No. It
just means that, like Catholics, their hearts can and do know where the line
between God and God-given is drawn. It is through understanding of each
other that prejudices (pre-judgements) like this are dissolved. Bacchiocchi
does not seem to have mutual understanding on his agenda. In many ways,
such as refuting Ellen White on the origins of Sunday observance
(http://tinyurl.com/puaxo), he has contributed to moving Adventism away from
its roots and towards a more fact-based outlook on history - but, in this
newsletter, he does not seem to have this in mind.
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
again (http://tinyurl.com/dama6) criticises the papal stand on moral issues,
and the commitment of Catholics to the support of Catholic moral teaching.
It looks like moral strength is a sign of the end-time evil power. Or so
many Adventists would have us believe.
He also interprets HH Pope Benedict XVI's promotion of Sunday in a sinister
way - whereas in reality, the pope is merely promoting better devotion to
God in a way that Bacchiocchi does not like. Bacchiocchi has a history of
such peculiar interpretations. (http://tinyurl.com/dama6,
http://tinyurl.com/rywub)
Bacchiocchi says of the ecumenical progress:
"For example, Bishop Eero Huovinen of the Finnish Lutheran Church, told the
Eucharistic Congress: "We Finnish Lutheran wish to be part of the Catholic
Church." He expressed agreement with the theme of the congress by affirming
that "Lutheran cannot live without the sacrament of the Eucharist." He
closed saying: "From the bottom of my heart, I would like to anticipate the
day in which Lutherans and Catholics, together, unite in a visible way."
"Bishop Huovinen's statement is significant for two reasons. First, it shows
that the Catholic promotion of Sunday as the day of the eucharistic
celebration, serves as a rallying point for Christian unity under the
leadership of the Catholic Church. Second, it reveals that the historical
doctrinal differences that have divided Protestantism and Catholicism are
largely ignored. Part of this development is due to the historic Joint
Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, which is an important
agreement between Lutherans and Roman Catholics."
Once again, Bacchiocchi demonstrates his ignorance on this matter. As I've
pointed out before (http://tinyurl.com/dama6), he doesn't realise that the
Finnish Lutherans have not changed their position on the Eucharist (or
Sunday observance) due to interaction with Catholicism. The Finnish
Lutherans have always been much closer to Catholicism in doctrine and
practice regarding both the Eucharist and Apostolic Succession than
mainstream Lutherans. Mainstream Lutherans in fact do not believe in
Apostolic Succession, whereas the Finnish Lutherans do. It should be made
clear that this bishop's statement reflects centuries of belief amongst
Finnish Lutherans, and not a movement away from historical protests.
Ecumenism is about understanding each other instead of doing what is popular
in many Adventist circles - feeding people incorrect information in order to
promote disunity.
Creating a climate of respect and mutual acceptance is slowly, but surely,
working. The Adventist camp that promotes their traditional propaganda has
decreased, and many now see Ellen White and her writings as flawed, affected
by the anti-Catholic climate of their day, and no longer the absolute
authority the more traditional Adventists of the past have seen them as.
The anti-Catholic propaganda has dwindled - because Adventists are starting
to learn the truth about Catholicism. The days where they blindly accepted
their pastors' claims that "Catholics worship Mary" and "the Pope claims to
be God" and "the Pope changed the Sabbath to Sunday" are becoming history.
When Adventists find out what Catholicism really believes, and leave the
propaganda behind them, they can't but accept us Catholics as fellow
Christians. Bacchiocchi, in a way, whether wittingly or not, has helped
this process. Which is why the more conspiracy theorist part of the
pro-division faction in Adventism sometimes label him as a Jesuit
infiltrator.
Bacchiocchi bewails the fact that Protestants consider Catholics to be
Christians. Lately the question of whether to re-classify Adventism as a
cult (http://tinyurl.com/jlkqf) instead of a Christian denomination has been
asked more and more often in Evangelical Protestant circles. Is he just
trying to put Catholicism in the same boat?
Worship through Mary, saints, objects, shrines, icons, crucifixes, or
statues, is condemned by the Scripture as idolatry.
Maybe it is condemned in the Clear Word Bible (http://tinyurl.com/prsvm),
but not in the real thing. Worship of false gods, yes. Worship of false
gods in the form of idols, yes. The use of physical means for worship - no.
The Bible is full of evidence for shrines, sacramentals, statues permitted
by God, and grace coming through physical objects. Yes, even the New
Testament contains this. (http://tinyurl.com/syr58,
http://tinyurl.com/kp3d8, http://tinyurl.com/mwyjr,) Bacchiocchi is willing
to make sweeping - and inaccurate - statements about what the Bible says in
one place, without bothering to put real Catholic teaching and the Bible's
complete witness side by side and compare them.
Bacchiocchi's problem with the Catholic way of experiencing the divine is
not really what he says it is - after all, his own denomination does the
same thing in other ways - the Sabbath, diet laws, Ellen White's writings.
And at an Adventist service I attended, the congregation knelt in reverence
when the Bible was raised for them to see before it was read. Were they
worshipping the Bible? Were they allowing a visual, physical form of
worship to distract them from the real worship of God? Or is this a valid
form of respect that can be paid to the Bible, and thereby instill respect
for it in the hearts of those who believe it?
Bacchiocchi's real problem with the Catholic way of experiencing the divine
is simply becaused it is Catholic. He doesn't spend his time attacking
similar things in other denominations, or in his own. Nor does he spend his
time attacking similar things seen in the Bible - whereas, if he wants to be
consistent, he should be doing just that.
His section title to this section is "Revival of Marian Worship." He should
really know better than to use terms like that - but it serves his purpose,
which is to instill disapproval of Catholicism. As I said before, ecumenism
is about understanding, not about misinformation. This, from Bacchiocchi,
is about misinformation.
Catholics do not worship Mary. To claim they do is as ridiculous as
claiming that Adventists worship the Sabbath or Ellen White.
Yet, in a sense, they do. The term "worship" is not restricted to the
adoration due to God alone. In many places in the world, judges and
magistrates are called, "Your worship." Lovers are said to worship each
other, or to worship the ground walked on by the ones they love. In some
contexts, the word "worship" refers to giving honour or respect. This is
perfectly acceptable in contexts outside of the adoration of God. The Bible
itself contains many such examples - applying to humans, as well as sacred
objects. Those who hold the anti-Catholic position either have not read
these passages in the Bible, or simply dissociate them from the issue of
Catholicism, and never make the logical connection between the two
practices.
The problem is that, in our current language usage, the term "worship" has
become a lot more restrictive, especially in a religious context. When
people today see the term "worship," they associate it solely with the
adoration due to God alone. And this is exactly why Bacchiocchi's use of
the word is misleading. Many Adventists believe that Catholics do indeed
worship Mary in the way we worship God. Bacchiocchi is playing to that
misunderstanding.
Adventists, on the other hand, do give reverence to the Bible, to Ellen
White, and to the Sabbath. They can therefore be said to be worshipping
these things. But it needs to be pointed out that, in this context, the
term "worship" is not being used in the strict modern Christian
interpretation of the word. What Adventists really engage in is a form of
respect - not adoration of the divine. That they reserve for God alone.
And the same is true of Catholics.
The Catholic "worship" of Mary and the saints, etc., is simply what the
Bible shows is a legitimate form of honour. It is not the same as our
worship of God. Just as in the Bible the externals may have resembled that
worship of God, so today Adventists may see similarities - but they do not
see what is in the hearts of Catholics, and, not understanding how Catholics
experience their faith, assume they are the same type of worship. The vast
majority of Catholics, understanding that experience, can easily
differentiate between the two, and know what they are worshipping and what
they are merely paying respect to.
Those Catholics who don't understand this can end up somewhat horrified by
what they are doing, not realising that their actions are condemned by
Catholic teaching, and assume that the idolatry they were guilty of is also
what is going on in the hearts of other Catholics ... and so they loudly
proclaim that Catholics worship Mary, without really having understood what
is really taught. They end up in the same group as those who never manage
to make the logical connection between Catholic practice and the biblical
passages showing honour to non-divine entities.
So, just as Catholics give a biblically permissable form of respect to Mary,
the saints, etc., so Adventists do the same with their traditional icons.
Does this mean that Adventists are engaging in idolatrous worship? No. It
just means that, like Catholics, their hearts can and do know where the line
between God and God-given is drawn. It is through understanding of each
other that prejudices (pre-judgements) like this are dissolved. Bacchiocchi
does not seem to have mutual understanding on his agenda. In many ways,
such as refuting Ellen White on the origins of Sunday observance
(http://tinyurl.com/puaxo), he has contributed to moving Adventism away from
its roots and towards a more fact-based outlook on history - but, in this
newsletter, he does not seem to have this in mind.
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za