Discussion:
The animal origins of non-white people
(too old to reply)
Stephen Korsman
2006-05-29 18:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi

The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society. Which is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear it
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be Adventist-run.

This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree of
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)

Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was taught
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by some of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her husband
even gave Smith's book a glowing review:

The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions of Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others despise and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.

Ellen's statements:

But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.

Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.

Contemoraneous teachings:

...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of Africa,
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.

... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can be found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]

Uriah Smith's defence:

"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating the deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few years after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain races of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this work
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever supposed that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this plain
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some men are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained in
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between the
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4

Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those in
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does that alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.

More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm

Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

IC | XC
---------
NI | KA

add an s before .co.za
Stephen Korsman
2006-05-30 15:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Stephen
It is a terrible Adventist Doctrine and one of which the church should be
ashamed
It was probably never official Adventist teaching, although it was certainly
part of Ellen White's teaching.
This doctrine has again resurfaced in education institutions as a means to
explain recent archaeology finds like homos florens in Indonesia.
I wasn't aware of that one ... I'll have to look it up.
These races of small men with small brains go against the theory of
Adventists that human beings are on an entropy.
So what is the way 'some' of the academics in SDA attempt to explain their
existence in our past? ah ha .. resurrect the doctrine of amalgamation to
show that these were the results of such.
The idea goes like this, that because Cain disappeared from his family..
Who
did he mate with? There were no humans.. (clever logic huh) so he had to
mate with animals. The results were races of men like homo florens that
archaeologists are now finding skeletons of.
It does amaze me how some Adventists would embrace this the re emergence
of
this nonsense.
I do however see how Almalgamation allows an explanation to shrug off
archaeology finds and science.
Which is sad ... it just makes what could be a fairly mainstream Christian
denomination appear to be a nest of crackpots.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

IC | XC
---------
NI | KA

add an s before .co.za
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society. Which is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear it
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be
Adventist-run.
Post by Stephen Korsman
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree of
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was taught
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by some of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her husband
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions of Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others despise and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of Africa,
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can be found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating the deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few years after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain races of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this work
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever supposed that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this plain
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some men are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained in
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between the
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those in
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does that alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
JohnSDA
2006-06-08 15:30:56 UTC
Permalink
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all harlots"-Church
in Rome.
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society. Which is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear it
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be Adventist-run.
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree of
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was taught
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by some of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her husband
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions of Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others despise and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of Africa,
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can be found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating the deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few years after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain races of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this work
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever supposed that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this plain
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some men are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained in
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between the
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those in
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does that alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
bam
2006-06-08 16:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church in Rome.
Entertain us - is she's the mother, who are the children?

BAM
Stephen Korsman
2006-06-08 18:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by bam
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church in Rome.
Entertain us - is she's the mother, who are the children?
Adventism is one of them. They use the New Testament Catholicism was led by
God to compile; they accept the Trinity Catholicism defined, etc etc etc.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

IC | XC
---------
NI | KA

add an s before .co.za
JohnSDA
2006-06-08 22:27:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Korsman
Post by bam
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church in Rome.
Entertain us - is she's the mother, who are the children?
Adventism is one of them. They use the New Testament Catholicism was led by
God to compile; they accept the Trinity Catholicism defined, etc etc etc.
God bless,
Stephen
Early Apostolic Church was not the Catholic church. Besides the Eastern
Church is just as old.

The daughters are those Protestant churches who have followed the same
corrupt doctrine.
Post by Stephen Korsman
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
Stephen Korsman
2006-06-09 14:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Post by bam
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church in Rome.
Entertain us - is she's the mother, who are the children?
Adventism is one of them. They use the New Testament Catholicism was
led
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
by
God to compile; they accept the Trinity Catholicism defined, etc etc etc.
God bless,
Stephen
Early Apostolic Church was not the Catholic church. Besides the Eastern
Church is just as old.
The Eastern Church was united with the Western Church in those days. And
one only needs to read the writings of the early Fathers to see that they
were Catholic, not at all some sort of proto-Protestant.
Post by JohnSDA
The daughters are those Protestant churches who have followed the same
corrupt doctrine.
Most Protestant doctrine comes from Catholicism, but the same applies to
Adventism.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

IC | XC
---------
NI | KA

add an s before .co.za
bam
2006-06-09 21:18:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Post by bam
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church in Rome.
Entertain us - is she's the mother, who are the children?
Adventism is one of them. They use the New Testament Catholicism was led by
God to compile; they accept the Trinity Catholicism defined, etc etc etc.
God bless,
Stephen
Early Apostolic Church was not the Catholic church. Besides the Eastern
Church is just as old.
The daughters are those Protestant churches who have followed the same
corrupt doctrine.
There's no such thing as a Protestant church with the same doctrines as
Catholicism. Try again. But if you insist that Protestant churches are the
daughter, then you're the youngest baby.

BAM
Stephen Korsman
2006-06-08 18:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church
Post by JohnSDA
in Rome.
Nope ... I am effectively showing that Ellen White was not a prophet.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

IC | XC
---------
NI | KA

add an s before .co.za
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society. Which is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear it
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be
Adventist-run.
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree of
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was taught
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by some of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her husband
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions of Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others despise and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of Africa,
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can be found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating the deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few years after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain races of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this work
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever supposed that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this plain
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some men are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained in
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between the
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those in
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does that alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
JohnSDA
2006-06-08 22:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church
Post by JohnSDA
in Rome.
Nope ... I am effectively showing that Ellen White was not a prophet.
God bless,
Stephen
You haven't done anything of the sort. Do you believe in the gift of
phrophesy?
Or did that gift dry up? Do you know that there were many phophets who never
had their words put into scripture, either in the new OR old testaments?

A spritual gift is not seeing Mary in a cloud or having a statue bleed.
Post by JohnSDA
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society.
Which
is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear
it
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be
Adventist-run.
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was
taught
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by
some
of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her
husband
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions of Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others
despise
and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the
ark.
The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has
been
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of
Africa,
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can be found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in
certain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating the deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few years after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain
races
of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this
work
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever supposed that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this
plain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some men are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa,
some
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between
the
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has
not
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does that alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
Whazit Tooyah
2006-06-09 05:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church
Post by JohnSDA
in Rome.
Nope ... I am effectively showing that Ellen White was not a prophet.
God bless,
Stephen
You haven't done anything of the sort. Do you believe in the gift of
phrophesy?
Does the gift of prophecy disseminate falsehoods if it is from God? Stephen
has shown by the prophets own words that she taught error. Amalgamation is
one of her more comical errors, but her writings are full of errors and
contradictions. I am not saying that all she wrote is bad or useless, just
that one has to examine her writings just as one would any other fallible
human writer.
Post by JohnSDA
Or did that gift dry up?
The gift hasn't dried up anymore than any of the other NT gifts have dried
up. However no person is (or was) a full time prophet since John the
Baptist. The gift of prophecy is given to individuals as God sees fit at
times that God sees fit for purposes that are decided by God. Any person
who claims to be (or have been) a full time prophet since Bible times is
either delusional or a purposeful fraud.
Post by JohnSDA
Do you know that there were many phophets who never
had their words put into scripture, either in the new OR old testaments?
Were they "as inspired as scripture" as is claimed by the White Estate?
Post by JohnSDA
A spritual gift is not seeing Mary in a cloud or having a statue bleed.
Nor is a spiritual gift adding rules and laws upon people that the Bible
does not command. (Such as not playing checkers and chess because heaven
doesn't approve them. Requireing women to wear the "reform dress" and then
quietly dropping the practice. etc, etc.)
--
WT

By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society.
Which
is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear
it
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be
Adventist-run.
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was
taught
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by
some
of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her
husband
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions
of
Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others
despise
and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the
ark.
The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has
been
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of
Africa,
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can be found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in
certain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating the deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few years after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain
races
of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this
work
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever
supposed
that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this
plain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some
men
are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa,
some
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between
the
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has
not
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does that alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
JohnSDA
2006-06-09 09:30:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church
Post by JohnSDA
in Rome.
Nope ... I am effectively showing that Ellen White was not a prophet.
God bless,
Stephen
You haven't done anything of the sort. Do you believe in the gift of
phrophesy?
Does the gift of prophecy disseminate falsehoods if it is from God?
Stephen has shown by the prophets own words that she taught error.
Amalgamation is one of her more comical errors, but her writings are full
of errors and contradictions. I am not saying that all she wrote is bad
or useless, just that one has to examine her writings just as one would
any other fallible human writer.
I never said she was infallible, just the opposite. But predominately she
wrote according to God's word, not in contradiction to it. This quote is
some very rare small nothing.
Compared to the millions of words she did write that were in line with God's
word.
To me it looks like something taken out of context.
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Or did that gift dry up?
The gift hasn't dried up anymore than any of the other NT gifts have dried
up. However no person is (or was) a full time prophet since John the
Baptist. The gift of prophecy is given to individuals as God sees fit at
times that God sees fit for purposes that are decided by God. Any person
who claims to be (or have been) a full time prophet since Bible times is
either delusional or a purposeful fraud.
John from Revelation wasn't a Prophet? EGW never claimed to be a Prophet.
You make claims only God can make. You are the authority on when God
can have a prophet? To say that there are prophets only in biblical times
is contrary to scripture. God can chose at anytime to have a prophet.
It may be very rare, but it does not say in scripture that a prophet
would never exist after biblical times. In fact, scripture makes the
prophetic gift an identifying mark of God's last day church.

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-17.htm
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Do you know that there were many phophets who never
had their words put into scripture, either in the new OR old testaments?
Were they "as inspired as scripture" as is claimed by the White Estate?
You're a liar. Read again before judging falsely.

AFFIRMATIONS

1.. We believe that Scripture is the divinely revealed word of God and is
inspired by the Holy Spirit.
2.. We believe that the canon of Scripture is composed only of the
sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments.
3.. We believe that Scripture is the foundation of faith and the final
authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.
4.. We believe that Scripture is the Word of God in human language.
5.. We believe that Scripture teaches that the gift of prophecy will be
manifest in the Christian church after New Testament times.
6.. We believe that the ministry and writings of Ellen White were a
manifestation of the gift of prophecy.
7.. We believe that Ellen White was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that
her writings, the product of that inspiration, are applicable and
authoritative, especially to Seventh-day Adventists.
8.. We believe that the purposes of the Ellen White writings include
guidance in understanding the teaching of Scripture and application of these
teachings, with prophetic urgency, to the spiritual and moral life.
9.. We believe that the acceptance of the prophetic gift of Ellen White is
important to the nurture and unity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
10.. We believe that Ellen White's use of literary sources and assistants
finds parallels in some of the writings of the Bible.
DENIALS

1.. We do not believe that the quality or degree of inspiration in the
writings of Ellen White is different from that of Scripture.
2.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are an addition to
the canon of Sacred Scripture.
3.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White function as the
foundation and final authority of Christian faith as does Scripture.
4.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White may be used as the
basis of doctrine.
5.. We do not believe that the study of the writings of Ellen White may be
used to replace the study of Scripture.
6.. We do not believe that Scripture can be understood only through the
writings of Ellen White.
7.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White exhaust the meaning
of Scripture.
8.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are essential for
the proclamation of the truths of Scripture to society at large.
9.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are the product of
mere Christian piety.
10.. We do not believe that Ellen White's use of literary sources and
assistants negates the inspiration of her writings.
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
A spritual gift is not seeing Mary in a cloud or having a statue bleed.
Nor is a spiritual gift adding rules and laws upon people that the Bible
does not command. (Such as not playing checkers and chess because heaven
doesn't approve them. Requireing women to wear the "reform dress" and then
quietly dropping the practice. etc, etc.)
What are you talking about? Church rules are not extra biblical. Almost all
churches have
rules about acceptable conduct. This is not to be confused with scripture or
what is acceptable to God within a personal relationship with Jesus. Because
someone states an opinion on acceptable behavior or dress this does not mean
it is extra-biblical.
Far from seeing Mary in a cloud.
Post by Whazit Tooyah
--
WT
By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society.
Which
is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear
it
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be
Adventist-run.
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was
taught
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by
some
of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her
husband
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions
of
Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others
despise
and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the
ark.
The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has
been
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of
Africa,
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can
be
found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in
certain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating
the
deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few
years
after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain
races
of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this
work
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever
supposed
that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this
plain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some
men
are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa,
some
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between
the
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has
not
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does
that
alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
Stephen Korsman
2006-06-09 18:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church
Post by JohnSDA
in Rome.
Nope ... I am effectively showing that Ellen White was not a prophet.
God bless,
Stephen
You haven't done anything of the sort. Do you believe in the gift of
phrophesy?
Does the gift of prophecy disseminate falsehoods if it is from God?
Stephen has shown by the prophets own words that she taught error.
Amalgamation is one of her more comical errors, but her writings are full
of errors and contradictions. I am not saying that all she wrote is bad
or useless, just that one has to examine her writings just as one would
any other fallible human writer.
I never said she was infallible, just the opposite. But predominately she
wrote according to God's word, not in contradiction to it. This quote is
some very rare small nothing.
It's inspired. That makes it hugely problematic.
Post by JohnSDA
Compared to the millions of words she did write that were in line with God's
word.
To me it looks like something taken out of context.
If her inspiration was NOT less than the Bible's inspiration, then surely
her writings must be held up to the same standard - that of a text just as
inspired as the Bible is?
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Or did that gift dry up?
The gift hasn't dried up anymore than any of the other NT gifts have dried
up. However no person is (or was) a full time prophet since John the
Baptist. The gift of prophecy is given to individuals as God sees fit at
times that God sees fit for purposes that are decided by God. Any person
who claims to be (or have been) a full time prophet since Bible times is
either delusional or a purposeful fraud.
John from Revelation wasn't a Prophet? EGW never claimed to be a Prophet.
You make claims only God can make. You are the authority on when God
can have a prophet? To say that there are prophets only in biblical times
is contrary to scripture. God can chose at anytime to have a prophet.
It may be very rare, but it does not say in scripture that a prophet
would never exist after biblical times. In fact, scripture makes the
prophetic gift an identifying mark of God's last day church.
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-17.htm
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Do you know that there were many phophets who never
had their words put into scripture, either in the new OR old
testaments?
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Were they "as inspired as scripture" as is claimed by the White Estate?
You're a liar. Read again before judging falsely.
Um ... no ... they did say that.

The exact words off their website are "We do not believe that the quality or
degree of inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that
of Scripture." You quoted it below.

It's merely stated in the negative.
Post by JohnSDA
AFFIRMATIONS
1.. We believe that Scripture is the divinely revealed word of God and is
inspired by the Holy Spirit.
2.. We believe that the canon of Scripture is composed only of the
sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments.
3.. We believe that Scripture is the foundation of faith and the final
authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.
4.. We believe that Scripture is the Word of God in human language.
5.. We believe that Scripture teaches that the gift of prophecy will be
manifest in the Christian church after New Testament times.
6.. We believe that the ministry and writings of Ellen White were a
manifestation of the gift of prophecy.
7.. We believe that Ellen White was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that
her writings, the product of that inspiration, are applicable and
authoritative, especially to Seventh-day Adventists.
8.. We believe that the purposes of the Ellen White writings include
guidance in understanding the teaching of Scripture and application of these
teachings, with prophetic urgency, to the spiritual and moral life.
9.. We believe that the acceptance of the prophetic gift of Ellen White is
important to the nurture and unity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
10.. We believe that Ellen White's use of literary sources and assistants
finds parallels in some of the writings of the Bible.
DENIALS
1.. We do not believe that the quality or degree of inspiration in the
writings of Ellen White is different from that of Scripture.
In other words, the statement "The degree to which Ellen White was inspired
is different to the degree to which Scripture was inspired" is considered
FALSE by the authors. They state that they deny this.

Therefore, the statement "Ellen White's degree of inspiration is less than
that of Scripture" is also not believed by the authors, and falls under
their denial.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

IC | XC
---------
NI | KA

add an s before .co.za
Post by JohnSDA
2.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are an addition to
the canon of Sacred Scripture.
3.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White function as the
foundation and final authority of Christian faith as does Scripture.
4.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White may be used as the
basis of doctrine.
5.. We do not believe that the study of the writings of Ellen White may be
used to replace the study of Scripture.
6.. We do not believe that Scripture can be understood only through the
writings of Ellen White.
7.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White exhaust the meaning
of Scripture.
8.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are essential for
the proclamation of the truths of Scripture to society at large.
9.. We do not believe that the writings of Ellen White are the product of
mere Christian piety.
10.. We do not believe that Ellen White's use of literary sources and
assistants negates the inspiration of her writings.
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
A spritual gift is not seeing Mary in a cloud or having a statue bleed.
Nor is a spiritual gift adding rules and laws upon people that the Bible
does not command. (Such as not playing checkers and chess because heaven
doesn't approve them. Requireing women to wear the "reform dress" and then
quietly dropping the practice. etc, etc.)
What are you talking about? Church rules are not extra biblical. Almost all
churches have
rules about acceptable conduct. This is not to be confused with scripture or
what is acceptable to God within a personal relationship with Jesus. Because
someone states an opinion on acceptable behavior or dress this does not mean
it is extra-biblical.
Far from seeing Mary in a cloud.
Post by Whazit Tooyah
--
WT
By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society.
Which
is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear
it
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be
Adventist-run.
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was
taught
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by
some
of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her
husband
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions
of
Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others
despise
and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction
of
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the
ark.
The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has
been
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of
Africa,
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the
earth,
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the
mixture
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can
be
found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as
may
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in
certain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating
the
deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few
years
after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain
races
of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this
work
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever
supposed
that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this
plain
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some
men
are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could
easily
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa,
some
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between
the
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins.
Can
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has
not
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those
in
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does
that
alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching -
http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are
not
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Whazit Tooyah
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
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Stephen Korsman
2006-06-12 04:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Korsman
If her inspiration was NOT less than the Bible's inspiration, then surely
her writings must be held up to the same standard - that of a text just as
inspired as the Bible is?
Strange logic for a Catholic, whose church feels that it can add or
subtract anything from the Bible that it feels like doing and has done
so without restraint. Not only that, it feels free to make up or set
aside anything at will, e.g., the acceptance of evolution by the late
pope, or any other dogma you want to mention.
Actually, the amalgamation theory is not really all that inconsistent
with evolution, except for the prejudice (typical of its time) shown
against non-whites. EGW's error is in failing to recognize that white
people are equally the product of interbreeding with animals, since all
humans are animals (unless you want to admit to being vegetable or
mineral).
There's a huge difference. Evolution says that we're descended from other
animals, not that some races resulted from mating with animals. Ellen White
is completely inconsistent with evolution.
Mind you, I hold no brief for EGW. I don't believe she was divinely
inspired any more than any pope or other religious con artist. What I
find offensive is your hypocrisy in holding others to standards that
your own RCC has always shamelessly trampled upon.
There's no hypocrisy. Catholicism doesn't claim to teach Sola Scriptura,
nor does it claim to be inspired the way the Bible is, but Adventism - at
least some segments - does make those claims for Ellen White. Furthermore,
Ellen White wrote a lot of nonsense ... masturbation causes tuberculosis,
piano tuning makes you insane, etc., which makes it really absurd to call
her inspired.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

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add an s before .co.za
Stephen Korsman
2006-06-09 18:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church
Post by JohnSDA
in Rome.
Nope ... I am effectively showing that Ellen White was not a prophet.
God bless,
Stephen
You haven't done anything of the sort. Do you believe in the gift of
phrophesy?
Or did that gift dry up? Do you know that there were many phophets who never
had their words put into scripture, either in the new OR old testaments?
See
Post by JohnSDA
A spritual gift is not seeing Mary in a cloud or having a statue bleed.
If that's the case, a spiritual gift is also not seeing the tall majestic
people who populate Jupiter, or incorrectly counting the moons of Jupiter or
Saturn, or holding a heavy Bible or not breathing.

All these things CAN be signs from God, like water turning into wine, but
they can also be a load of hogwash.

God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/

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NI | KA

add an s before .co.za
Whazit Tooyah
2006-06-11 08:26:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Korsman
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church
Post by JohnSDA
in Rome.
Nope ... I am effectively showing that Ellen White was not a prophet.
God bless,
Stephen
You haven't done anything of the sort. Do you believe in the gift of
phrophesy?
Or did that gift dry up? Do you know that there were many phophets who
never
Post by JohnSDA
had their words put into scripture, either in the new OR old testaments?
See
Post by JohnSDA
A spritual gift is not seeing Mary in a cloud or having a statue bleed.
If that's the case, a spiritual gift is also not seeing the tall majestic
people who populate Jupiter, or incorrectly counting the moons of Jupiter or
Saturn, or holding a heavy Bible or not breathing.
All these things CAN be signs from God, like water turning into wine, but
they can also be a load of hogwash.
God bless,
Stephen
Nor is it a spiritual gift to misread and misrepresent what scripture
teaches. Mrs. Whites investigative judgment is just such a false teaching.
Nor is it a spiritual gift to sell one's writings to followers nor to
recompile these writings in other books just to sell them again. I can't
think of a single true prophet of God who demanded money for their prophecy.
Mrs. White lived quite comfortably and traveled extensively on the profits
of her prophecy. Upon her death, rather than bequeathing her writings to
the SDA church she set up the "White Estate" who still collects money for
her progeny. Mrs. White was a profiteer, not a prophet.
--
WT

By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another
Whazit Tooyah
2006-06-11 08:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnSDA
You're reaching for straws in defense of the "mother of all
harlots"-Church in Rome.
Actually he is quoting the founders of the SDA church to provide evidence
that Mrs. White is a false prophet. The amalgamation quote is just one of
her numerous false teachings. Others have been mentioned recently in other
threads. Actually I found these ridiculous ideas of hers after I decided she
was a false prophet. Her book "The Great Controversy" revealed her as a
false prophet with doctrines that are far outside of what the Bible teaches.
--
WT

By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another
Post by JohnSDA
Post by Stephen Korsman
Hi
The idea that certain races of non-white people are derived from mating
between animals and humans won't go down well in today's society. Which is
one reason why you won't hear it taught from Adventist pulpits, or hear it
preached in the prophecy seminars you later discovery to be
Adventist-run.
This was written by Ellen White (no pun intended on her name) - the
Adventist prophetess, whose inspiration is of the same degree as the
inspiration of the Bible ("We do not believe that the quality or degree of
inspiration in the writings of Ellen White is different from that of
Scripture." - http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html)
Although modern Adventists try to deny that she taught this, it was taught
by some during her time by others, and the teaching was defended by some of
her contemporaries, such as Uriah Smith, with her knowledge. Her husband
The Association has just published a pamphlet entitled, "The Visions of Mrs.
E.G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual Gifts According to the Scriptures."
It is written by the editor of the Review. While carefully reading the
manuscript, I felt grateful to God that our people could have this able
defense of those views they so much love and prize, which others despise and
oppose.
- James White, Review, Aug. 15, 1868.
But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of
the race by the flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man and
beast which defaced the image of God, and caused confusion everywhere.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 64.
Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The
confused species which God did not create, which were the result of
amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been
amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless
varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men.
- Ellen White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. 3, p. 75.
...that crosses between men and animals had created a no-man's-land between
man and beast, populated by gorillas, chimpanzees, wild bushmen of Africa,
Patagonians, and Hottentots.
- Gordon Shigley, "Amalgamation of Man and Beast: What Did Ellen White
Mean?", Spectrum, vol. 12, no. 4, p. 13.
... the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the
beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of
animals of one species with the other.
- Jasher 4:18. [Evidence that Ellen White used this as a source can be found
at http://www.ellenwhite.org/refute7.htm]
"Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be
seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain
races of men." This view was given for the purpose of illustrating the deep
corruption and crime into which the race fell, even within a few years after
the flood that signal manifestation of God's wrath against human wickedness.
There was amalgamation; and the effect is still visible in certain races of
men." Mark, those excepting the animals upon whom the effects of this work
are visible, are called by the vision, "men." Now we have ever supposed that
anybody that was called a man, was considered a human being. The vision
speaks of all these classes as races of men; yet in the face of this plain
declaration, they foolishly assert that the visions teach that some men are
not human beings! But does any one deny the general statement contained in
the extract given above? They do not. If they did, they could easily be
silenced by a reference to such cases as the wild Bushmen of Africa, some
tribes of the Hottentots, and perhaps the Digger Indians of our own country,
&c. Moreover, naturalists affirm that the line of demarkation between the
human and animal races is lost in confusion. It is impossible, as they
affirm, to tell just where the human ends and the animal begins. Can we
suppose that this was so ordained of God in the beginning? Rather has not
sin marred the boundaries of these two kingdoms?
- Uriah Smith, The Visions of Mrs. E. G. White, A Manifestation of Spiritual
gifts According to the Scripture, pp. 103-4
Adventism has offered all sorts of ideas that this could refer to - genetic
engineering (since the flood???), interracial marriage (enough of those in
the Bible) or marriage between godly and ungodly people (how does that alter
a race?) - but the evidence is against these excuses.
More on this racist teaching - http://www.ellenwhite.org/critica.htm
Sad. But truly good that these inspired words of Ellen White are not taken
seriously by her followers.
God bless,
Stephen
--
Stephen Korsman
website: http://www.theotokos.co.za/adventism/
blog: http://www.theotokos.co.za/blog/
IC | XC
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NI | KA
add an s before .co.za
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