Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters

[stephen]

Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters

Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.

We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.

Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.

One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.

Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.

Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.

John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.

James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.

Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called

Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

But here James is the son of Alpheus.

In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.

If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).

Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.

Lastly, James the Apostle is called the brother of Jesus in Gal 1:19:

Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.

There were two Apostles called James:

James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.

That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

[Rod]

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

That is interesting. Are you tracing the lineage from Mary, the
mother of Jesus?

[duke]

Post by Rod

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

That is interesting. Are you tracing the lineage from Mary, the
mother of Jesus?

The real key is that they can be and are the brothers and sisters of Jesus
without being the children of Mary.

I bet robert missed that one.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Rod

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

That is interesting. Are you tracing the lineage from Mary, the
mother of Jesus?

The real key is that they can be and are the brothers and sisters of Jesus
without being the children of Mary.
I bet robert missed that one.
the dukester, American-American

Robert didn't miss a thing.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Rod

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

That is interesting. Are you tracing the lineage from Mary, the
mother of Jesus?

The real key is that they can be and are the brothers and sisters of Jesus
without being the children of Mary.
I bet robert missed that one.
the dukester, American-American

Robert didn't miss a thing.

My answer was so simple.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[ea]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Rod

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

That is interesting. Are you tracing the lineage from Mary, the
mother of Jesus?

The real key is that they can be and are the brothers and sisters of Jesus
without being the children of Mary.
I bet robert missed that one.
the dukester, American-American

Robert didn't miss a thing.

Other than the obvious, or anything that doesn't pat you on the back, you
never do.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[stephen]

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

That is interesting. Are you tracing the lineage from Mary, the mother
of Jesus?

I'm not addressing Jesus's ancestry, just demonstrating that the Bible
shows that the so-called brothers of Jesus are assigned different
mothers in the Bible.

[Robert]

Post by stephen
I'm not addressing Jesus's ancestry, just demonstrating that the Bible
shows that the so-called brothers of Jesus are assigned different
mothers in the Bible.

You were only showing your confusion over people with similar names.

Lots of people were and still are confused over the name of Mary and
all the Mary's. Have you taken the time to sort those out?

[astarte]

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
I'm not addressing Jesus's ancestry, just demonstrating that the Bible
shows that the so-called brothers of Jesus are assigned different
mothers in the Bible.

You were only showing your confusion over people with similar names.

Really, how did he confuse you?

Post by Robert
Lots of people were and still are confused over the name of Mary and
all the Mary's. Have you taken the time to sort those out?

Not at all, unless of course they are trying to track down the xian claimed
mother of their missing messiah.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
I'm not addressing Jesus's ancestry, just demonstrating that the Bible
shows that the so-called brothers of Jesus are assigned different
mothers in the Bible.

You were only showing your confusion over people with similar names.
Lots of people were and still are confused over the name of Mary and
all the Mary's. Have you taken the time to sort those out?

Yes, we Catholics do so all the time.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[stephen]

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
I'm not addressing Jesus's ancestry, just demonstrating that the Bible
shows that the so-called brothers of Jesus are assigned different
mothers in the Bible.

You were only showing your confusion over people with similar names.
Lots of people were and still are confused over the name of Mary and
all the Mary's. Have you taken the time to sort those out?

Yes, in the OP.

[Robert]

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.

poor argument, even in today's time we know the difference between
brothers in a family and brothers (bro's) As well as we all see the
distinctions of spiritual brothers, and family brothers. All of these
and more mentioned in the lexicon of Thayer's and more.


adelphos
Thayer Definition:
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same
father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or
countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
6a) his brothers by blood
6b) all men
6c) apostles
6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1 (as a connective
particle) and delphus (the womb)

Strong
ad-el-fos'
From G1 (as a connective particle) and de?f?´? delphus (the womb); a
brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like [H1]): -
brother.

Post by stephen
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.

Ridiculous, more twists given and why? The verse clearly speaks of
Jesus, the carpenters son, identifies his mom and his brothers, it
also identifies the animosity of the neighbors in his town towards
Jesus.

Post by stephen
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.

Odd? What is odd about identifying the mother of siblings with the
same names that another mother has.

Special mention is made of the women who had faithfully ministered to
the Lord, and who had followed Him all the way from Galilee to
Jerusalem. Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and
Salome, the wife of Zebedee, were there. The fearless devotion of
these women stands out with special luster. They remained with Christ
when the male disciples ran for their lives!

Post by stephen
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

His Mothers sister, Salome, was mother of John.

Post by stephen
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.

There was more than one family with a James and Joses in it, and now
the author is either confused, or is purposely attempting to confuse
the issue, and for what reason he does not state.

Post by stephen
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.

See the list of the twelve disciples pulled out of the many to be
Apostles. What the author is doing here is attempting to create a
smoke screen of confusion.

Post by stephen
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called

See the list below

Post by stephen
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).

Mary, the mother of Jesus, her sisters name was Salome, the Mother of
John.

None of the Apostles where the literal/carnal brothers of Jesus, so
what's the point?

Post by stephen
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.

The use of the word save or except here is an unfortunate choice of
words. James, the physical brother of the Lord was not an Apostle. Had
it been an actual Apostle, then there were two that were called James,
but each were identified as coming from separate families, as you note
below.

Post by stephen
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

No, you fraud. You have made a lie out of Gods word which clearly
listed boys AND girls as her children. You did not address anything
properly.

Jesus spent all night in prayer before choosing the twelve. What a
rebuke this is to our impulsiveness and independence of God! Luke is
the only evangelist who mentions this night of prayer.

The twelve whom He chose from among the wider circle of disciples
were:
The twelve apostles were:
1. Simon, who is called Peter. Impetuous, generous-hearted,
affectionate man that he was, he was a born leader.
2. Andrew, his brother. He was introduced to Jesus by John the Baptist
(Joh_1:36, Joh_1:40), then brought his brother Peter to Him. He made
it his business thereafter to bring men to Jesus.
3. James, the son of Zebedee, who was later killed by Herod
(Act_12:2)—the first of the twelve to die as a martyr.
4. John, his brother. Also a son of Zebedee, he was the disciple whom
Jesus loved. We are indebted to him for the Fourth Gospel, three
Epistles, and Revelation.
5. Philip. A citizen of Bethsaida, he brought Nathanael to Jesus. He
is not to be confused with Philip the Evangelist, in the book of Acts.
6. Bartholomew. Believed to be the same as Nathanael, the Israelite in
whom Jesus found no guile (Joh_1:47).
7. Thomas, also called Didymus, meaning “twin.” Commonly known as
“Doubting Thomas,” his doubts gave way to a magnificent confession of
Christ (Joh_20:28).
8. Matthew. The former tax-collector who wrote this Gospel.
9. James, the son of Alphaeus. Little else is definitely known about
him.
10. Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus. He is also known as Judas
the son of James (Luk_6:16). His only recorded utterance is found in
Joh_14:22.
11. Simon, the Canaanite, whom Luke calls the Zealot (Luk_6:15).
12. Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of our Lord.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.

poor argument, even in today's time we know the difference between
brothers in a family and brothers (bro's) As well as we all see the
distinctions of spiritual brothers, and family brothers. All of these
and more mentioned in the lexicon of Thayer's and more.

Acts 1. Did you know that Peter had 120 brothers and sisters?

Post by Robert
adelphos
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same
father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or
countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
6a) his brothers by blood
6b) all men
6c) apostles
6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1 (as a connective
particle) and delphus (the womb)
Strong
ad-el-fos'
From G1 (as a connective particle) and de?f?´? delphus (the womb); a
brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like [H1]): -
brother.

Post by stephen
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.

Ridiculous, more twists given and why? The verse clearly speaks of
Jesus, the carpenters son, identifies his mom and his brothers, it
also identifies the animosity of the neighbors in his town towards
Jesus.

Post by stephen
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.

Odd? What is odd about identifying the mother of siblings with the
same names that another mother has.
Special mention is made of the women who had faithfully ministered to
the Lord, and who had followed Him all the way from Galilee to
Jerusalem. Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and
Salome, the wife of Zebedee, were there. The fearless devotion of
these women stands out with special luster. They remained with Christ
when the male disciples ran for their lives!

Post by stephen
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

His Mothers sister, Salome, was mother of John.

Post by stephen
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.

There was more than one family with a James and Joses in it, and now
the author is either confused, or is purposely attempting to confuse
the issue, and for what reason he does not state.

Post by stephen
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.

See the list of the twelve disciples pulled out of the many to be
Apostles. What the author is doing here is attempting to create a
smoke screen of confusion.

Post by stephen
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called

See the list below

Post by stephen
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).

Mary, the mother of Jesus, her sisters name was Salome, the Mother of
John.
None of the Apostles where the literal/carnal brothers of Jesus, so
what's the point?

Post by stephen
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.

The use of the word save or except here is an unfortunate choice of
words. James, the physical brother of the Lord was not an Apostle. Had
it been an actual Apostle, then there were two that were called James,
but each were identified as coming from separate families, as you note
below.

Post by stephen
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

No, you fraud. You have made a lie out of Gods word which clearly
listed boys AND girls as her children. You did not address anything
properly.
Jesus spent all night in prayer before choosing the twelve. What a
rebuke this is to our impulsiveness and independence of God! Luke is
the only evangelist who mentions this night of prayer.
The twelve whom He chose from among the wider circle of disciples
1. Simon, who is called Peter. Impetuous, generous-hearted,
affectionate man that he was, he was a born leader.
2. Andrew, his brother. He was introduced to Jesus by John the Baptist
(Joh_1:36, Joh_1:40), then brought his brother Peter to Him. He made
it his business thereafter to bring men to Jesus.
3. James, the son of Zebedee, who was later killed by Herod
(Act_12:2)—the first of the twelve to die as a martyr.
4. John, his brother. Also a son of Zebedee, he was the disciple whom
Jesus loved. We are indebted to him for the Fourth Gospel, three
Epistles, and Revelation.
5. Philip. A citizen of Bethsaida, he brought Nathanael to Jesus. He
is not to be confused with Philip the Evangelist, in the book of Acts.
6. Bartholomew. Believed to be the same as Nathanael, the Israelite in
whom Jesus found no guile (Joh_1:47).
7. Thomas, also called Didymus, meaning “twin.” Commonly known as
“Doubting Thomas,” his doubts gave way to a magnificent confession of
Christ (Joh_20:28).
8. Matthew. The former tax-collector who wrote this Gospel.
9. James, the son of Alphaeus. Little else is definitely known about
him.
10. Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus. He is also known as Judas
the son of James (Luk_6:16). His only recorded utterance is found in
Joh_14:22.
11. Simon, the Canaanite, whom Luke calls the Zealot (Luk_6:15).
12. Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of our Lord.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[stephen]

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.

poor argument, even in today's time we know the difference between
brothers in a family and brothers (bro's) As well as we all see the
distinctions of spiritual brothers, and family brothers. All of these
and more mentioned in the lexicon of Thayer's and more.
adelphos
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same
father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or
countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
6a) his brothers by blood
6b) all men
6c) apostles
6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1 (as a connective
particle) and delphus (the womb)
Strong
ad-el-fos'
From G1 (as a connective particle) and de?f?´? delphus (the womb); a
brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like [H1]): -
brother.

You've proven my point by quoting all of that - you've shown that those
people called Jesus' brothers CAN in fact be family other than siblings.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Mark 6:3 – Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of
James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here
with us? And they were offended at him.
One key to understanding who these brothers were lies with the women
present at Jesus’ crucifixion.

Ridiculous, more twists given and why? The verse clearly speaks of
Jesus, the carpenters son, identifies his mom and his brothers, it
also identifies the animosity of the neighbors in his town towards
Jesus.

It speaks of his mom and relatives.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Matt 27:56 – Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of
James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
Here we see two of the brothers mentioned, and their mother was Mary.
Odd, that Mary should be listed as their mother, and not Jesus’ mother,
given the circumstances, if this Mary were Jesus’ mother. This indicates
that this Mary, mother of James and Joses, was not Jesus’ mother.

Odd? What is odd about identifying the mother of siblings with the
same names that another mother has.
Special mention is made of the women who had faithfully ministered to
the Lord, and who had followed Him all the way from Galilee to
Jerusalem. Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and
Salome, the wife of Zebedee, were there. The fearless devotion of
these women stands out with special luster. They remained with Christ
when the male disciples ran for their lives!

When Jesus is present, one would expect him to be named as her son, and
not ignored.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
John 19:25 – Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his
mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

His Mothers sister, Salome, was mother of John.

Post by stephen
So now there are three Marys present – Jesus’ mother, Mary the wife of
Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
Either James and Joses were the sons of Jesus’ mother, or of Mary the
wife of Cleophas.

There was more than one family with a James and Joses in it, and now
the author is either confused, or is purposely attempting to confuse
the issue, and for what reason he does not state.

One COULD claim that every time a James or Joses is mentioned in the
Bible, it refers to a new person not previously mentioned. But that's a
big leap of faith.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
James and Jude were brothers, as indicated above in Mark 6:3, and also
in Jude 1:1, as well as in Acts 1:13.

See the list of the twelve disciples pulled out of the many to be
Apostles. What the author is doing here is attempting to create a
smoke screen of confusion.

No, no smoke screen, just linking what the Bible says in one place to
what it says in another place.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Jude 1:1 – Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to
them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus
Christ, and called

See the list below

Post by stephen
Acts 1:13 – And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room,
where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and
Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon
Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
But here James is the son of Alpheus.
In Greek, the Aramaic name Alpheus was translated as either Alpheus or
Cleophas.
If you put the above together, you get James, Joses, and Jude being the
sons of Mary, wife of Alpheus/Cleophas. This shows that at least three
of the “brothers” (adelphoi) in Mark 6:3 are not immediate siblings of
Jesus, but rather close relatives. First cousins, in fact, because this
Mary is Jesus’ mother’s sister (or likely sister-in-law).

Mary, the mother of Jesus, her sisters name was Salome, the Mother of
John.
None of the Apostles where the literal/carnal brothers of Jesus, so
what's the point?

The point is that James, Joses, and Jude have mothers other than Jesus'
mother.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Simon’s relationship here isn’t explicitly explained in the Bible, but
if the Bible groups him with James, Joses, and Jude, and these three are
not Mary’s children, it makes sense that he’s the same type of “brother”
(adelphos) to Jesus as they are.
Gal 1:19 – But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s
brother.

The use of the word save or except here is an unfortunate choice of
words. James, the physical brother of the Lord was not an Apostle. Had
it been an actual Apostle, then there were two that were called James,
but each were identified as coming from separate families, as you note
below.

Ummm ... Paul says, paraphrased, "I saw none of the Apostles except
James the Lord's brother". I.e. the Apostle James is called the Lord's
brother. As you point out, the Apostle James (both of them) have
different fathers, and their mothers were the wives of those fathers.
Not Jesus' mother.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
James, brother of John, the son of Zebedee (Matt 10:2)
James, brother of Jude (Luke 6:16), the son of Alpheus/Cleophas – Luke 6:15
So James the brother of Jesus, if Paul is right about him being an
Apostle, was not a biological sibling of Jesus.
That, then, leaves Mary, Jesus’ mother, with no other named children in
the Bible.

No, you fraud. You have made a lie out of Gods word which clearly
listed boys AND girls as her children. You did not address anything
properly.
Jesus spent all night in prayer before choosing the twelve. What a
rebuke this is to our impulsiveness and independence of God! Luke is
the only evangelist who mentions this night of prayer.

Yet nowhere in this passage does he say that Mary gave birth to anyone
other than Jesus.

Post by Robert
The twelve whom He chose from among the wider circle of disciples
1. Simon, who is called Peter. Impetuous, generous-hearted,
affectionate man that he was, he was a born leader.
2. Andrew, his brother. He was introduced to Jesus by John the Baptist
(Joh_1:36, Joh_1:40), then brought his brother Peter to Him. He made
it his business thereafter to bring men to Jesus.
3. James, the son of Zebedee, who was later killed by Herod
(Act_12:2)—the first of the twelve to die as a martyr.
4. John, his brother. Also a son of Zebedee, he was the disciple whom
Jesus loved. We are indebted to him for the Fourth Gospel, three
Epistles, and Revelation.
5. Philip. A citizen of Bethsaida, he brought Nathanael to Jesus. He
is not to be confused with Philip the Evangelist, in the book of Acts.
6. Bartholomew. Believed to be the same as Nathanael, the Israelite in
whom Jesus found no guile (Joh_1:47).
7. Thomas, also called Didymus, meaning “twin.” Commonly known as
“Doubting Thomas,” his doubts gave way to a magnificent confession of
Christ (Joh_20:28).
8. Matthew. The former tax-collector who wrote this Gospel.
9. James, the son of Alphaeus. Little else is definitely known about
him.
10. Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus. He is also known as Judas
the son of James (Luk_6:16). His only recorded utterance is found in
Joh_14:22.
11. Simon, the Canaanite, whom Luke calls the Zealot (Luk_6:15).
12. Judas Iscariot, the betrayer of our Lord.

Great list. Look at the two called James. One was called Jesus'
brother by Paul in Gal 1:19. Neither is Mary's son.

[Robert]

Post by stephen

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.

poor argument, even in today's time we know the difference between
brothers in a family and brothers (bro's) As well as we all see the
distinctions of spiritual brothers, and family brothers. All of these
and more mentioned in the lexicon of Thayer's and more.
adelphos
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same
father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or
countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
6a) his brothers by blood
6b) all men
6c) apostles
6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1 (as a connective
particle) and delphus (the womb)
Strong
ad-el-fos'
From G1 (as a connective particle) and de?f?´? delphus (the womb); a
brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like [H1]): -
brother.

You've proven my point by quoting all of that - you've shown that those
people called Jesus' brothers CAN in fact be family other than siblings.

You have just shown us that you are driven by your concepts that are
your own, that you want to see only what supports your illusions. Why?

Because I first showed the Thayer lexicon of the word. 1st on the list
was this,...
Quote
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the
same father or mother.
End Quote.

So I did not prove your point, but did show you in fairness the very
vague possibility of it being true. Yet, the bible must be understood
en total.

In any event, I see you going the wrong way on a one way street.

[PATRICK]

Post by Robert
So I did not prove your point, but did show you in fairness the very
vague possibility of it being true. Yet, the bible must be understood
en total.

A vague possibility?
It has been proven with a certainty that you are a liar, a cult leader
wannabe, and one destined for Hell. read the Bible.

[astarte]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 17:29:23 -0800, Robert wrote:
snip, Robert has the podium.

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
You've proven my point by quoting all of that - you've shown that those
people called Jesus' brothers CAN in fact be family other than siblings.

You have just shown us that you are driven by your concepts that are
your own, that you want to see only what supports your illusions. Why?

IOW, you could not follow the yellow ball.

Post by Robert
Because I first showed the Thayer lexicon of the word. 1st on the list
was this,...
Quote
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the
same father or mother.
End Quote.

Using a reference that is meant to reinforce your pov is at a minimum
dishonest. Though typical of your quote mining.

Post by Robert
So I did not prove your point, but did show you in fairness the very
vague possibility of it being true. Yet, the bible must be understood
en total.

No, you did a fine act of chasing your tail though.

Post by Robert
In any event, I see you going the wrong way on a one way street.

According to your postings, you are that person. But you do believe
everyone else has your problem.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by stephen

Post by Robert

Post by stephen
Chapter 108: Jesus' brothers and sisters
Here I’ll address the brothers of Jesus named in the Bible.
We’ve seen that the Greek word “adelphos” (“brother” in Mark 6:3) can
mean close relative or cousin. Laban and Jacob (Gen 29:15) are called
brothers (adelphos in the Septuagint), yet were not siblings; similarly
Lot and Abraham are called bothers in Gen 14:14, yet they were not
siblings. That it is also used this way in the New Testament to refer to
“brothers” of Jesus is undeniable.

poor argument, even in today's time we know the difference between
brothers in a family and brothers (bro's) As well as we all see the
distinctions of spiritual brothers, and family brothers. All of these
and more mentioned in the lexicon of Thayer's and more.
adelphos
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same
father or mother
2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or
countryman
3) any fellow or man
4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
5) an associate in employment or office
6) brethren in Christ
6a) his brothers by blood
6b) all men
6c) apostles
6d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1 (as a connective
particle) and delphus (the womb)
Strong
ad-el-fos'
From G1 (as a connective particle) and de?f?´? delphus (the womb); a
brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote (much like [H1]): -
brother.

You've proven my point by quoting all of that - you've shown that those
people called Jesus' brothers CAN in fact be family other than siblings.

You have just shown us that you are driven by your concepts that are
your own, that you want to see only what supports your illusions. Why?
Because I first showed the Thayer lexicon of the word. 1st on the list
was this,...

Forget thayer. In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

Post by Robert
Quote
1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the
same father or mother.
End Quote.
So I did not prove your point, but did show you in fairness the very
vague possibility of it being true. Yet, the bible must be understood
en total.
In any event, I see you going the wrong way on a one way street.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

[nefushtan]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 20:20:48 -0800, Robert 's attempt at humor failed, but
why change now?

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.

Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

[PATRICK]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/mary_queen_of_heaven_and_earth.php

JESUS IS KING. He is it. Now if Mary is Queen, it means that she has
no authority whatsoever over his decisions except a whisper in his ear
(Jn 2:3). So I don't believe that calling Mary the Queen diminishes
the King's (Jesus') authority in the least. In fact it reinforces it.
What respectable King does not have a Queen? Revelation 11:12 says:

12 :1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the
sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve
stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pangs, in the
agony of giving birth. Then the dragon stood before the woman who was
about to bear a child, so that he might devour her child as soon as it
was born. 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule
all the nations with a rod of iron. But her child was snatched away
and taken to God and to his throne..

Jesus only had one Mother and this passage is talking about the woman
that gave birth to the Saviour. She has a Crown. The passage also
clearly shows Mary as an active participant in the war against the
devil. The Passage presents Jesus on his rightful throne.

[Robert]

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.

God hated that others tried to assign a Queen to heaven, kissed off
the Jews who did, and said to seek her for their food and clothes,
etc.

Sort of gives one an understanding of what God thinks about queens in
heaven.

[PATRICK]

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

[Robert]

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

[astarte]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:53:48 -0800, Robert wrote:

snip, Robert is now an expert of catholic church doctrine. No really,
unless he is just pretending. Snip.

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

You have yet to do that. You claim to be the only poster that can
understand what you claim for the truth. But quote mining is not the way
to convince those that think for themselves.

PS, who are you trying to impress in Zanzibar?

[Patrick]

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

[Robert]

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

Yes, it's in scripture.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[astarte]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 23:25:34 -0800, Robert wrote:

snip, 70 lines to pretend to know what it's obvious he doesn't.

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And the answer can be no, which explains all those unanswered prayers.

[Patrick]

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

[Robert]

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.

Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

[nefushtan]

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:00:12 -0800, Robert wrote:
snip

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick
And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.

So, Duke is a final authority then? You are desperate.

Post by Robert
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Will it be on line, or just in your *archive* files? On line is the only
way, & dated correctly. A problem you created fort yourself when you
called walksalone a liar.

[Patrick]

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

If you relocate, I'll not say anything to you about Mary anymore.

[Robert]

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert
Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

If you relocate, I'll not say anything to you about Mary anymore.

As I figured, you are not a man of your word. I could see that in your
dealings with Matt.

[asherah]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 00:22:01 -0800, Robert wrote:

snip

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick
If you relocate, I'll not say anything to you about Mary anymore.

As I figured, you are not a man of your word. I could see that in your
dealings with Matt.

Can anyone else see the irony i Robert's post?


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.
the dukester, American-American

Yes, He did. He was fulfilling the law by honoring his mother, sad you
didn't know that in heaven all our relationships change, except with
God and us.

[asherah]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 15:00:05 -0800, Robert wrote:
Snip, just Robert pretending to be in the know.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

Yes, He did. He was fulfilling the law by honoring his mother, sad you
didn't know that in heaven all our relationships change, except with
God and us.

Does this mean that the relationship between Jesus and his Mother are "no
longer"? I wonder where you found this lie about Jesus?

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

Yes, He did. He was fulfilling the law by honoring his mother, sad you
didn't know that in heaven all our relationships change, except with
God and us.

Does this mean that the relationship between Jesus and his Mother are "no
longer"? I wonder where you found this lie about Jesus?
the dukester, American-American

Mat 22:28  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of
the seven? for they all had her. 
Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing
the scriptures, nor the power of God.

No doubt you will not understand this either, but,...

Mat 12:47  Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren
stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 
Mat 12:48  But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my
mother? and who are my brethren? 
Mat 12:49  And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and
said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 
Mat 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in
heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. 

[nefushtan]

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 09:39:06 -0800, Robert wrote:

snip, 118 lines if you can believe it.

Post by duke
Does this mean that the relationship between Jesus and his Mother are "no
longer"? I wonder where you found this lie about Jesus?
the dukester, American-American

Snip quote mine Robert tried to use liker a silver bullet.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

Yes, He did. He was fulfilling the law by honoring his mother, sad you
didn't know that in heaven all our relationships change, except with
God and us.

Does this mean that the relationship between Jesus and his Mother are "no
longer"? I wonder where you found this lie about Jesus?

Mat 22:28  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of
the seven? for they all had her. 
Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing
the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Well, now that's stupid. You are talking mankind-on-mankind. I'm taking God on
mankind. Not very bright of you.

Post by Robert
No doubt you will not understand this either, but,...
Mat 12:47  Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren
stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 
Mat 12:48  But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my
mother? and who are my brethren? 
Mat 12:49  And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and
said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 
Mat 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in
heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. 

Oh, we know that he was acknowledging Mary as his real mother but not the others
as being Mary's children.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

Yes, He did. He was fulfilling the law by honoring his mother, sad you
didn't know that in heaven all our relationships change, except with
God and us.

Does this mean that the relationship between Jesus and his Mother are "no
longer"? I wonder where you found this lie about Jesus?

Mat 22:28  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of
the seven? for they all had her. 
Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing
the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Well, now that's stupid. You are talking mankind-on-mankind. I'm taking God on
mankind. Not very bright of you.

Post by Robert
No doubt you will not understand this either, but,...
Mat 12:47  Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren
stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 
Mat 12:48  But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my
mother? and who are my brethren? 
Mat 12:49  And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and
said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 
Mat 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in
heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. 

Oh, we know that he was acknowledging Mary as his real mother but not the others
as being Mary's children.

So absurd that it warrants no reply.

Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

Yes, He did. He was fulfilling the law by honoring his mother, sad you
didn't know that in heaven all our relationships change, except with
God and us.

Does this mean that the relationship between Jesus and his Mother are "no
longer"? I wonder where you found this lie about Jesus?

Mat 22:28  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of
the seven? for they all had her. 
Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing
the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Well, now that's stupid. You are talking mankind-on-mankind. I'm taking God on
mankind. Not very bright of you.

Post by Robert
No doubt you will not understand this either, but,...
Mat 12:47  Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren
stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 
Mat 12:48  But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my
mother? and who are my brethren? 
Mat 12:49  And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and
said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 
Mat 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in
heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. 

Oh, we know that he was acknowledging Mary as his real mother but not the others
as being Mary's children.

So absurd that it warrants no reply.

Post by duke
the dukester, American-American

Sad. You revile at the truths revealed in scripture.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke
Sad. You revile at the truths revealed in scripture.
the dukester, American-American

Time to draw a line.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke
Sad. You revile at the truths revealed in scripture.
the dukester, American-American

Time to draw a line.

Your line is being drawn straight to the flames.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[nefushtan]

Post by Robert

Post by duke
Sad. You revile at the truths revealed in scripture.
the dukester, American-American

Time to draw a line.

Past time unless one wants to display their ignorance & non-xian conduct
toward others.

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[•RLMeasures]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:37:50 -0600, duke

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

€€€ Jesus' mom warned him that the Jewish Holy men were getting pissed
but he did not back off so they offed him.

[duke]

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:37:50 -0600, duke

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer

in the

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters"

mandated "of the same

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

€€€ Jesus' mom warned him that the Jewish Holy men were getting pissed
but he did not back off so they offed him.

Which handed mankind salvation from his sins if he cleans up his act and
reconciles himself with God thru Confession.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[•RLMeasures]

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 06:38:26 -0600, duke

Post by duke

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:37:50 -0600, duke

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer

in the

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by duke

world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters"

mandated "of the same

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by duke
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

€€€ Jesus' mom warned him that the Jewish Holy men were getting pissed
but he did not back off so they offed him.

Which handed mankind salvation from his sins if he cleans up his act and
reconciles himself with God thru Confession.

€€€€ Confession was invented by Pope Gregory I.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 06:38:26 -0600, duke

Post by duke

On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:37:50 -0600, duke

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer

in the

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by duke

world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters"

mandated "of the same

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by duke
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God

says. It is

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says

otherwise.

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing.

Perhaps the

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth

trousers.

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the

Queen."

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the

word Queen

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to

the queen

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In

commonwealth law,

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority

whatsoever

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son

of God.

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who

cannot deny

Post by duke

Post by stephen

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Sure.
If it is considered Catholic doctrine.
But if you or someone like you made the claim, I'll pass.

At Mary's basilica in Rome she said that Jesus cannot refuse to answer
what she asks. RCC doctrine. One of the things I pointed out to you
specifically in that thread.

And I merely ask you to prove your assertions.
AGAIN.

Duke says that it is scriptural.
Will you certify that you will drop your belief in Mary if I relocate
it and post the link?

Jesus honored his mother's requests. It's in the bible. Go for it.

€€€ Jesus' mom warned him that the Jewish Holy men were getting pissed
but he did not back off so they offed him.

Which handed mankind salvation from his sins if he cleans up his act and
reconciles himself with God thru Confession.

€€€€ Confession was invented by Pope Gregory I.

Nope, as far as I know, it started with the Jewish Day of Atonement.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by PATRICK

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says. It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Some Evangelicals have problems with this "Queen" thing. Perhaps the
best way to explain it is to compare Heaven to the Commonwealth. We
live in a time when the Queen of England is the highest in the
Commonwealth. There is no king. She wears the commonwealth trousers.
She is it. She is the focus. We grew up singing "God save the Queen."
So it is natural that our contemporary understanding of the word Queen
would be someone in highest authority. But what happens to the queen
when there is a king? Then who has the authority? In commonwealth law,
when there is a king, the queen has absolutely no authority whatsoever
except the quiet whisper in the king's ear to influence a decision.
(Jn 2:3)

According to your church, Jesus is the son of Mary and the son of God.
God ruler over all, Mary the "Queen" ruler of her son, who cannot deny
her anything pre your posted doctrine.'

Stop lying.
Mary is not considered the "ruler of her son."
She never was considered that.
You are such a liar.

If I showed you that again are you willing to drop the false beliefs
of your church, like praying to Mary?

Yet Jesus showed that he honored his Mother's wishes. Are you sure you ever
read anything in the NT?

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[astarte]

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 22:32:41 -0800, Robert polluting the following news
groups:
za.religion.christian,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.religion.christian.adventist,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.religion.sabbath-keeper
failed to present anything but his claim, & the claims of a known lair are
worthless.

Flush AKA snip

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Ok then who is the mother of the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Ok then who is the mother of the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

Like I said, the deaf cannot hear.

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[astarte]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 12:56:03 -0800, Robert wrote:
snip.

the nice thing about books found in the Greek text, they can say anything
you want them to. However, that is true for everyone else as well.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Ok then who is the mother of the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

Like I said, the deaf cannot hear.

That's right. You can't.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Ok then who is the mother of the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

Like I said, the deaf cannot hear.

That's right. You can't.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

[nefushtan]

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 10:01:21 -0800, Robert wrote:

71 lines for a one liner.

Post by Robert
You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

And you have? Your interpolations say you don't understand it. Which is
not exactly news where you are involved.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Ok then who is the mother of the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

Like I said, the deaf cannot hear.

That's right. You can't.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Ok then who is the mother of the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

Like I said, the deaf cannot hear.

That's right. You can't.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[asherah]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 15:00:59 -0800, Robert wrote:
snip

Post by Robert

Post by duke
Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Sure he has, it's called an interpolation. Just like yours.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
In Acts, it says that Peter had 120 brothers.

It also said they were all gathered together in one Accord.
I guess that means that Honda is the oldest auto manufacturer in the
world.

It also destroys your case that "brothers and sisters" mandated "of the same
mother". We already know who Jesus' Father is.
the dukester, American-American

Utter nonsense.
Besides, it is not my "case", it is what the word of God says.

Nope, scripture is totally silent on who the mother of those brothers and sister
are. No way does it say they are Mary's children.

Only to the deaf are they silent.

Ok then who is the mother of the brothers and sisters of Jesus?

Like I said, the deaf cannot hear.

That's right. You can't.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
It is
the lying doctrine of the RCC and the Orthodox that says otherwise.

The gladly pursue you facts that Mary is their mother.

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

There is your queen.

[nefushtan]

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 10:01:58 -0800, Robert wrote:

snip more whining via quote mining. But only 41 lines this time.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

Post by Robert
There is your queen.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is yoa woman. I.e. Israel. The woman cannot mean, literally, the virgin mother of Jesus, for she did not flee into the wilderness and stay there for 1260 days, while the dragon persecuted the remnant of her seedur queen.

the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Well, as my Bible says, only God can unravel the mysteries of Revelation as
there is something translucent in them. And you are blind.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Well, as my Bible says, only God can unravel the mysteries of Revelation as
there is something translucent in them. And you are blind.

Then you have a false book, because revelations is not "sealed".

Just because you cannot see don't assume others cannot also.

Post by duke
the dukester, American-American

[Patrick]

Post by Robert
The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

[Robert]

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert
The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

It was just done a few weeks ago here, and thousands already have and
their words stand.

[Patrick]

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert
The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

It was just done a few weeks ago here, and thousands already have and
their words stand.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

[Robert]

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert
The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

It was just done a few weeks ago here, and thousands already have and
their words stand.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

Question: "What is Roman Catholicism?"

Answer: The Roman Catholic Church portrays itself as the one
legitimate heir to New Testament Christianity, and the pope as the
successor to Peter, the first bishop of Rome. While those details are
debatable, there is no question that Roman church history reaches back
to ancient times. The apostle Paul wrote his letter to the Romans
about AD 55 and addressed a church body that existed prior to his
first visit there (but he made no mention of Peter, though he greeted
others by name). Despite repeated persecutions by the government, a
vibrant Christian community existed in Rome after apostolic times.
Those early Roman Christians were just like their brethren in other
parts of the world—simple followers of Jesus Christ.

Things changed drastically when the Roman Emperor Constantine
professed a conversion to Christianity in AD 312. He began to make
changes that ultimately led to the formation of the Roman Catholic
Church. He issued the Edict of Milan in 313, which granted freedom of
worship throughout the empire. When doctrinal disputes arose,
Constantine presided over the first ecumenical church council at
Nicaea in AD 325, even though he held no official authority in the
churches. By the time of Constantine’s death, Christianity was the
favored, if not the official, religion of the Roman Empire. The term
Roman Catholic was defined by Emperor Theodosius on February 27, 380,
in the Theodosian Code. In that document, he refers to those who hold
to the “religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine
Apostle Peter” as “Roman Catholic Christians” and gives them the
official sanction of the empire.

The fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of the Catholic Church are
really two branches of the same story, as the power was transferred
from one entity to the other. From the time of Constantine (AD 312)
until the fall of the Roman Empire in 476, the emperors of Rome
claimed a certain amount of authority within the church, even though
it was disputed by many church leaders. During those formative years,
there were many disputes over authority, structure, and doctrine. The
emperors sought to increase their authority by granting privileges to
various bishops, resulting in disputes about primacy within the
churches. At the same time, some of the bishops sought to increase
their authority and prestige by accusing others of false doctrine and
seeking state support of their positions. Many of those disputes
resulted in very sinful behavior, which are a disgrace to the name of
Christ.

Just like today, some of those who lived in the leading cities tended
to exalt themselves above their contemporaries in the rural areas. The
third century saw the rise of an ecclesiastical hierarchy patterned
after the Roman government. The bishop of a city was over the
presbyters, or priests, of the local congregations, controlling the
ministry of the churches, and the Bishop of Rome began to establish
himself as supreme over all. Though some historians tell these details
as the history of “the church,” there were many church leaders in
those days who neither stooped to those levels nor acknowledged any
ecclesiastical hierarchy. The vast majority of churches in the first
four centuries derived their authority and doctrine from the Bible and
traced their lineage directly back to the apostles, not to the church
of Rome. In the New Testament, the terms elder, pastor, and bishop are
used interchangeably for the spiritual leaders of any church (see 1
Peter 5:1–3 where the Greek root words are translated “elders,”
“feed,” and “oversight”). By the time Gregory became pope in AD 590,
the empire was in a shambles, and he assumed imperial powers along
with his ecclesiastical authority. From that time on, the church and
state were fully intertwined as the Holy Roman Empire, with the pope
exercising authority over kings and emperors.

[Patrick]

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert
The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

It was just done a few weeks ago here, and thousands already have and
their words stand.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

Question: "What is Roman Catholicism?"
Answer: The Roman Catholic Church portrays itself as the one
legitimate heir to New Testament Christianity, and the pope as the
successor to Peter, the first bishop of Rome. While those details are
debatable, there is no question that Roman church history reaches back
to ancient times. The apostle Paul wrote his letter to the Romans
about AD 55 and addressed a church body that existed prior to his
first visit there (but he made no mention of Peter, though he greeted
others by name). Despite repeated persecutions by the government, a
vibrant Christian community existed in Rome after apostolic times.
Those early Roman Christians were just like their brethren in other
parts of the world—simple followers of Jesus Christ.

So far, so good.....

Post by Robert
Things changed drastically when the Roman Emperor Constantine
professed a conversion to Christianity in AD 312. He began to make
changes that ultimately led to the formation of the Roman Catholic
Church. He issued the Edict of Milan in 313, which granted freedom of
worship throughout the empire. When doctrinal disputes arose,
Constantine presided over the first ecumenical church council at
Nicaea in AD 325, even though he held no official authority in the
churches. By the time of Constantine’s death, Christianity was the
favored, if not the official, religion of the Roman Empire. The term
Roman Catholic was defined by Emperor Theodosius on February 27, 380,
in the Theodosian Code. In that document, he refers to those who hold
to the “religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine
Apostle Peter” as “Roman Catholic Christians” and gives them the
official sanction of the empire.

Yes, good, good.....
So far, no Babylon reference....

Post by Robert
The fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of the Catholic Church are
really two branches of the same story, as the power was transferred
from one entity to the other. From the time of Constantine (AD 312)
until the fall of the Roman Empire in 476, the emperors of Rome
claimed a certain amount of authority within the church, even though
it was disputed by many church leaders. During those formative years,
there were many disputes over authority, structure, and doctrine. The
emperors sought to increase their authority by granting privileges to
various bishops, resulting in disputes about primacy within the
churches. At the same time, some of the bishops sought to increase
their authority and prestige by accusing others of false doctrine and
seeking state support of their positions. Many of those disputes
resulted in very sinful behavior, which are a disgrace to the name of
Christ.

I don't see any proveable facts here.
A lot of supposition, I guess.

Post by Robert
Just like today, some of those who lived in the leading cities tended
to exalt themselves above their contemporaries in the rural areas. The
third century saw the rise of an ecclesiastical hierarchy patterned
after the Roman government. The bishop of a city was over the
presbyters, or priests, of the local congregations, controlling the
ministry of the churches, and the Bishop of Rome began to establish
himself as supreme over all.

The church hierarchy was already in place.
And when Rome started to decay, someone had to fill in the vacuum.
The populace was happy to hand this power over to the church rather
than watch the Roman politicians grab more, and steal more, and become
more corrupt. The populace felt the church was a bit more honest.
However, people will still be people, and those corrupt ones will use
any excuse to make a grab for more power. And this incuded leaders in
the church.

Post by Robert
Though some historians tell these details
as the history of “the church,” there were many church leaders in
those days who neither stooped to those levels nor acknowledged any
ecclesiastical hierarchy.

There have always been good people and bad people.
ALWAYS.

Post by Robert
The vast majority of churches in the first
four centuries derived their authority and doctrine from the Bible and
traced their lineage directly back to the apostles, not to the church
of Rome

Absolutely true.
And this became somewhat of a problem when small time bishops felt
that they could interpret the Bible anyway they wished. It was time
to organize and come up with one crede that Christians could all agree
with. If the little churches would not sign on to the creed, they
were invited to leave.

You can see this problem today with the difference between those
churches that still claim to be Christian.... you know - the fag
hatinf Baptists, the JW's, the Mormons, etc.

Post by Robert
In the New Testament, the terms elder, pastor, and bishop are
used interchangeably for the spiritual leaders of any church (see 1
Peter 5:1–3 where the Greek root words are translated “elders,”
“feed,” and “oversight”)

Amd I don't find this to be scandalous or Babylon ish.

Post by Robert
By the time Gregory became pope in AD 590,
the empire was in a shambles, and he assumed imperial powers along
with his ecclesiastical authority. From that time on, the church and
state were fully intertwined as the Holy Roman Empire, with the pope
exercising authority over kings and emperors.

Which the many leaders, kings, and noblemen accepted in order to get a
fair shake... instead of having to war all the time.

The power was GIVEN to the Church in order to have peace.

I don't see the babylon stuff here.

Where is it?

[nefushtan]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 17:15:46 -0800, Robert wanted to impress himself.
Doubt he did though. Snip 151 lines picked to say nothing.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[nefushtan]

Post by Robert

Post by Patrick

Post by Robert
The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

<Yawn>
Prove it.

It was just done a few weeks ago here, and thousands already have and
their words stand.

No, it wasn't. But then you have shown your ignorance before as well as
now.

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

Hardly. Jesus gave us the Catholic Church. There's no telling where your
mistakes started.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Well, as my Bible says, only God can unravel the mysteries of Revelation as
there is something translucent in them. And you are blind.

Then you have a false book, because revelations is not "sealed".

Mine says the same thing as all other valid bibles. Yours is not valid.

Post by Robert
Just because you cannot see don't assume others cannot also.

You've guaranteed you cannot see.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

Hardly. Jesus gave us the Catholic Church. There's no telling where your
mistakes started.

Question: "What is Roman Catholicism?"

Answer: The Roman Catholic Church portrays itself as the one
legitimate heir to New Testament Christianity, and the pope as the
successor to Peter, the first bishop of Rome. While those details are
debatable, there is no question that Roman church history reaches back
to ancient times. The apostle Paul wrote his letter to the Romans
about AD 55 and addressed a church body that existed prior to his
first visit there (but he made no mention of Peter, though he greeted
others by name). Despite repeated persecutions by the government, a
vibrant Christian community existed in Rome after apostolic times.
Those early Roman Christians were just like their brethren in other
parts of the world—simple followers of Jesus Christ.

Things changed drastically when the Roman Emperor Constantine
professed a conversion to Christianity in AD 312. He began to make
changes that ultimately led to the formation of the Roman Catholic
Church. He issued the Edict of Milan in 313, which granted freedom of
worship throughout the empire. When doctrinal disputes arose,
Constantine presided over the first ecumenical church council at
Nicaea in AD 325, even though he held no official authority in the
churches. By the time of Constantine’s death, Christianity was the
favored, if not the official, religion of the Roman Empire. The term
Roman Catholic was defined by Emperor Theodosius on February 27, 380,
in the Theodosian Code. In that document, he refers to those who hold
to the “religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine
Apostle Peter” as “Roman Catholic Christians” and gives them the
official sanction of the empire.

The fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of the Catholic Church are
really two branches of the same story, as the power was transferred
from one entity to the other. From the time of Constantine (AD 312)
until the fall of the Roman Empire in 476, the emperors of Rome
claimed a certain amount of authority within the church, even though
it was disputed by many church leaders. During those formative years,
there were many disputes over authority, structure, and doctrine. The
emperors sought to increase their authority by granting privileges to
various bishops, resulting in disputes about primacy within the
churches. At the same time, some of the bishops sought to increase
their authority and prestige by accusing others of false doctrine and
seeking state support of their positions. Many of those disputes
resulted in very sinful behavior, which are a disgrace to the name of
Christ.

Just like today, some of those who lived in the leading cities tended
to exalt themselves above their contemporaries in the rural areas. The
third century saw the rise of an ecclesiastical hierarchy patterned
after the Roman government. The bishop of a city was over the
presbyters, or priests, of the local congregations, controlling the
ministry of the churches, and the Bishop of Rome began to establish
himself as supreme over all. Though some historians tell these details
as the history of “the church,” there were many church leaders in
those days who neither stooped to those levels nor acknowledged any
ecclesiastical hierarchy. The vast majority of churches in the first
four centuries derived their authority and doctrine from the Bible and
traced their lineage directly back to the apostles, not to the church
of Rome. In the New Testament, the terms elder, pastor, and bishop are
used interchangeably for the spiritual leaders of any church (see 1
Peter 5:1–3 where the Greek root words are translated “elders,”
“feed,” and “oversight”). By the time Gregory became pope in AD 590,
the empire was in a shambles, and he assumed imperial powers along
with his ecclesiastical authority. From that time on, the church and
state were fully intertwined as the Holy Roman Empire, with the pope
exercising authority over kings and emperors.

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Well, as my Bible says, only God can unravel the mysteries of Revelation as
there is something translucent in them. And you are blind.

Then you have a false book, because revelations is not "sealed".

Mine says the same thing as all other valid bibles. Yours is not valid.

Again you provided no scripture.

Post by duke

Post by Robert
Just because you cannot see don't assume others cannot also.

You've guaranteed you cannot see.
the dukester, American-American

end of line

[astarte]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:17:27 -0800, Robert left 149 lines to say noting of
note. Typical, but he should think of the electrons.
snip

Post by Robert

Post by duke
Hardly. Jesus gave us the Catholic Church. There's no telling where your
mistakes started.

Question: "What is Roman Catholicism?"

A sub cult, a particular sect. No more, no less. If you give it
authority, your problem.
snip

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
Then you have a false book, because revelations is not "sealed".

Mine says the same thing as all other valid bibles. Yours is not valid.

Again you provided no scripture.

To those that are not ignorant of your myth, none needed. Hint, it has to
do with no more additions to the text.

snip

Post by Robert
end of line

If only the groups were to get that lucky.

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

Hardly. Jesus gave us the Catholic Church. There's no telling where your
mistakes started.

Question: "What is Roman Catholicism?"
Answer: The Roman Catholic Church portrays itself as the one
legitimate heir to New Testament Christianity, and the pope as the
successor to Peter, the first bishop of Rome. While those details are
debatable, there is no question that Roman church history reaches back
to ancient times.

Thus it's history and not a 2000 year later rendering of God's Word.

The apostle Paul wrote his letter to the Romans

Post by Robert
about AD 55 and addressed a church body that existed prior to his
first visit there (but he made no mention of Peter, though he greeted
others by name). Despite repeated persecutions by the government, a
vibrant Christian community existed in Rome after apostolic times.
Those early Roman Christians were just like their brethren in other
parts of the world—simple followers of Jesus Christ.
Things changed drastically when the Roman Emperor Constantine
professed a conversion to Christianity in AD 312. He began to make
changes that ultimately led to the formation of the Roman Catholic
Church. He issued the Edict of Milan in 313, which granted freedom of
worship throughout the empire. When doctrinal disputes arose,
Constantine presided over the first ecumenical church council at
Nicaea in AD 325, even though he held no official authority in the
churches. By the time of Constantine’s death, Christianity was the
favored, if not the official, religion of the Roman Empire. The term
Roman Catholic was defined by Emperor Theodosius on February 27, 380,
in the Theodosian Code. In that document, he refers to those who hold
to the “religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine
Apostle Peter” as “Roman Catholic Christians” and gives them the
official sanction of the empire.
The fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of the Catholic Church are
really two branches of the same story, as the power was transferred
from one entity to the other. From the time of Constantine (AD 312)
until the fall of the Roman Empire in 476, the emperors of Rome
claimed a certain amount of authority within the church, even though
it was disputed by many church leaders. During those formative years,
there were many disputes over authority, structure, and doctrine. The
emperors sought to increase their authority by granting privileges to
various bishops, resulting in disputes about primacy within the
churches. At the same time, some of the bishops sought to increase
their authority and prestige by accusing others of false doctrine and
seeking state support of their positions. Many of those disputes
resulted in very sinful behavior, which are a disgrace to the name of
Christ.
Just like today, some of those who lived in the leading cities tended
to exalt themselves above their contemporaries in the rural areas. The
third century saw the rise of an ecclesiastical hierarchy patterned
after the Roman government. The bishop of a city was over the
presbyters, or priests, of the local congregations, controlling the
ministry of the churches, and the Bishop of Rome began to establish
himself as supreme over all. Though some historians tell these details
as the history of “the church,” there were many church leaders in
those days who neither stooped to those levels nor acknowledged any
ecclesiastical hierarchy. The vast majority of churches in the first
four centuries derived their authority and doctrine from the Bible and
traced their lineage directly back to the apostles, not to the church
of Rome. In the New Testament, the terms elder, pastor, and bishop are
used interchangeably for the spiritual leaders of any church (see 1
Peter 5:1–3 where the Greek root words are translated “elders,”
“feed,” and “oversight”). By the time Gregory became pope in AD 590,
the empire was in a shambles, and he assumed imperial powers along
with his ecclesiastical authority. From that time on, the church and
state were fully intertwined as the Holy Roman Empire, with the pope
exercising authority over kings and emperors.

Yep, like I told you, at one time the Emperor and the Pope were one and the same
man.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Well, as my Bible says, only God can unravel the mysteries of Revelation as
there is something translucent in them. And you are blind.

Then you have a false book, because revelations is not "sealed".

Mine says the same thing as all other valid bibles. Yours is not valid.

Again you provided no scripture.

Rev 12.


the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[nefushtan]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:05:18 -0800, Robert wrote:


snip.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke
No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

The Roman Church is modeled after the Old Roman Government. Babylon.

Obviously you are ignorant about not only the book of revelation, but
archaic governments.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Well, as my Bible says, only God can unravel the mysteries of Revelation as
there is something translucent in them. And you are blind.

Then you have a false book, because revelations is not "sealed".

It is revelation, & it is, according to the author, indeed sealed.

Post by Robert
Just because you cannot see don't assume others cannot also.

Now stand in front of your mirror & repeat that to yourself until it stays
with you.

[duke]

Post by Robert

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They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Mary fits the profile exactly. You jews just can't buy into Mary.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is yoa woman. I.e. Israel. The woman cannot mean, literally, the virgin mother of Jesus, for she did not flee into the wilderness and stay there for 1260 days, while the dragon persecuted the remnant of her seedur queen.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

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Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Mary fits the profile exactly. You jews just can't buy into Mary.

Yes, the Mary of the Gospel of St. James fits your profile, but any
bible scholar can see what I wrote is true.

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is yoa woman. I.e. Israel. The woman cannot mean, literally, the virgin mother of Jesus, for she did not flee into the wilderness and stay there for 1260 days, while the dragon persecuted the remnant of her seedur queen.

the dukester, American-American

Drawing the line

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

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Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Mary fits the profile exactly. You jews just can't buy into Mary.

Yes, the Mary of the Gospel of St. James fits your profile, but any
bible scholar can see what I wrote is true.

My Queen is found in Rev 12.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is yoa woman. I.e. Israel. The woman cannot mean, literally, the virgin mother of Jesus, for she did not flee into the wilderness and stay there for 1260 days, while the dragon persecuted the remnant of her seedur queen.

It does.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Robert]

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

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Post by Robert

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Post by Robert

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Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

See doc above for the Roman empire/RCC

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Mary fits the profile exactly. You jews just can't buy into Mary.

Yes, the Mary of the Gospel of St. James fits your profile, but any
bible scholar can see what I wrote is true.

My Queen is found in Rev 12.

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
There is yoa woman. I.e. Israel. The woman cannot mean, literally, the virgin mother of Jesus, for she did not flee into the wilderness and stay there for 1260 days, while the dragon persecuted the remnant of her seedur queen.

It does.
the dukester, American-American

end of line

[astarte]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:20:25 -0800, Robert left 75 lines on the floor.
snip, brags not worth the effort of reading them.

Post by Robert
end of line

Apparently not. Your still leaving piles on the usenet floor.


Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."

[duke]

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert

Post by duke

Post by Robert
They try to make her out as Queen of heaven and all sorts of other
nonsense. Then pray to her like a god. How sick is that?

Who is "they"? She is so called in Revelations.

No, she isn't. That is your Church.

Revelations.

Not Revelations, but the "Queen" spoken of. Try reading it sometime.

Mary is the Queen

You comment shows me that you never read Revelations.

Yes, I read where Mary is Queen.

You have not read that in the bible, and never will.

Yep, in Revelations.
the dukester, American-American

Rev 18:5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath
remembered her iniquities. 
Rev 18:6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her
double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill
to her double. 
Rev 18:7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit
a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 
Rev 18:8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and
mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for
strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 
Rev 18:9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication
and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 

No, our Mother is found in Rev 12. Yours is a reference to Babylon, the code
word for the Roman Empire.

There is no Queen in chapter 12 and that was your specific comment
that there was a Queen. The woman in chapter 12 is Israel, the nation.

Mary fits the profile exactly. You jews just can't buy into Mary.

Yes, the Mary of the Gospel of St. James fits your profile, but any
bible scholar can see what I wrote is true.

My Queen is found in Rev 12.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[nefushtan]

On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:11:58 -0800, Robert wrote 66 lines to get the last
word in. Until now. Snip.

Are you going to answer walksalone's question. You know, this one.


Now, where is that message ID where you claim I called you a liar?

"Aristotle was once asked what those who tell lies gain by it. Said he,
"That when they speak truth they are not believed."