Discussion:
3 days and 3 nights – from when till when?
(too old to reply)
stephen
2017-03-30 15:24:35 UTC
Permalink
3 days and 3 nights – from when till when?

Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?

Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.

It is important to note here that in the Bible, days begin at sunset.
This is most relevant here in the crucifixion narratives, which show the
sabbath about to begin as sunset approached on the day Jesus died.

The key verse in the crucifixion/resurrection timing debate is this:

Matt 12:40 (KJV) – For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.

Objection 1. It would seem that “three days and three nights” is a
phrase that must be taken literally, and therefore Jesus spent 72 hours
in the tomb in order for his words in Matthew to be true. The Bible does
not count inclusively, and if Jesus was in the tomb for three days, that
too means a 72 hour time period. If Jesus was buried shortly before
sunset (John 19:42) then he must have risen shortly before sunset 72
hours later. Since Jesus rested in the tomb on the sabbath, and was
risen by the next morning, he must have risen from the dead on the
sabbath, shortly before sunset. 72 hours before the sunset that ends the
sabbath is the sunset on Wednesday evening. Therefore Jesus was
crucified on Wednesday and rose as the sabbath ended 72 hours later.

Objection 2. Further, there were two sabbaths in the week Jesus was
crucified. One was the Passover day, 15 Nisan, which occurred on
Thursday. The next was the weekly sabbath, which occurred on Saturday.
Wednesday 14 Nisan was the preparation day mentioned in John 19:31,42,
the preparation for the Passover.

Objection 3. Further, Jesus was typified by the wave sheaf offering,
which took place on the day after the weekly sabbath during Passover
week. This is not when Jesus rose from the dead, for he had risen from
the dead 12 hours previously at the end of the weekly sabbath, but
rather when he came out of the tomb.

Objection 4. Further, the above objections are confirmed by the two
distinct rest periods when the women rested between buying and preparing
spices and going to the tomb to anoint Jesus’ body. The women had no
time to purchase spices on Wednesday between Jesus’ burial and sunset.
They rested on the sabbath that was Passover day on Thursday, and then
on Friday they purchased (Mark 16:1) and prepared the spices (Luke
23:56). Then they rested on the weekly sabbath (Luke 23:56), and went to
the tomb early on Sunday morning (Luke 24:1, Mark 16:2).

On the contrary, it is written – Jesus rose on the third day (Luke
24:46) and Sunday was the third day (Luke 24:21). Therefore he died on
Friday, the first day of three in a series.

I answer that Jesus died on the day of preparation (John 19:31,42),
which was a name for the day before the weekly sabbath. The weekly
sabbath was Saturday, and so Jesus died on Friday. Furthermore, Jesus
rose on the third day, counting inclusively, at the same time the wave
sheaf offering was performed, on the morning after Passover day (Lev 23:11).

Reply to objection 1

“Three days and three nights” is an idiomatic expression that, if taken
literally, contradicts other passages in Scripture. It stands in
contrast with multiple mentions of “the third day” in the New Testament.
If “the third day” is used in the Bible to refer to a day 72 hours from
the start of counting, only then can “three days and three nights” be
taken literally. Luke 13:32 shows Jesus speaking of “today, tomorrow,
and the third day” – so the third day is the day after tomorrow, if we
start counting today. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the
third day is Sunday. Similarly in Exodus 19:10-11, God tells Moses to
sanctify the people “today and tomorrow” and to be ready on “the third
day“. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the third day is
Sunday. Luke 23:21 confirms that the third day after Jesus died was Sunday.

Furthermore, Scripture shows that if Jesus had died on Wednesday, then
Sunday would have been the fifth day, and if Jesus had died on a
Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day. Scripture shows us such
a 72 hour period, lasting from the morning of one day, through the next
day, and the day after that, and ending on the morning of the fourth
day. Beginning in Acts 10:3, Cornelius has a vision at the ninth hour.
In verse 9, it is the next day, “on the morrow“. Verse 23 shows us the
day after that, “on the morrow“. Verse 24 shows us the day after that,
again “the morrow“. And on this day, in verse 30, Cornelius tells us
that his vision was four days ago that very hour. Cornelius counted this
way: today, tomorrow, the next day, and then the fourth day. If Jesus
had been crucified on a Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day,
but Luke 24:21 and Luke 24:46 tell us that Sunday was the third day. If
Jesus had been crucified on a Wednesday, Sunday would have been the
fifth day, not the third.

Therefore, following the way the authors of the Bible counted of three
or four days, we can be certain that if Jesus rose on Sunday, then he
had to have been crucified on Friday. “Three days and three nights” is
an idiomatic expression that emphasises three days, but not the number
of hours involved. Esther 4:16-5:1 confirms this.

Reply to objection 2

Nowhere does the Bible state clearly that there were two sabbaths that
week. This needs to be inferred after much convoluted rearrangement of
Scripture. In each of the Gospels we see a three day sequence presented
– preparation, the sabbath, and the third day. We see this in Matt
27:62-28:1; again in Mark 15:42-16:2; again in Luke 23:54-24:1; and
finally in John 19:31,42-20:1.

The “preparation” day meant only the day before the weekly sabbath, not
some preparation day for the Passover not called this in the Bible. The
Greek word on the New Testament is “παρασκευή“. The word is used six
times in the New Testament, all referring to the day Jesus was
crucified, and it is defined in Mark 15:42 as “the day before the
sabbath“. By the time of the New Testament, “sabbath” specifically
referred to the 7th day of the week. In the Greek of the time, the term
παρασκευή had become, for the Jews, a synonym for the day before the
weekly sabbath. No textual evidence to the contrary exists. The Didache,
a Christian document written between 70 and 120 AD, confirms that
παρασκευή is a day of the week used for fasting. The longer (and more
recent) version of St Ignatius of Antioch’s letter to the Trallians
(dating to about 300 AD) refers to three consecutive days – preparation,
the sabbath, and the first day – as being the days on which Jesus died,
rested, and rose.

Reply to objection 3

The wave sheaf offering after Passover represented Jesus’ rising from
the dead, and instruction is given in Lev 23:11. In keeping with the
usage of the word at the time Leviticus was written, “sabbath” could
refer to the weekly sabbath or to Passover in this verse. However, we
know it took place on the day after Passover, on 16 Nisan, whichever day
of the week it occurred. The first century AD historian Josephus
confirms that this was the Jewish interpretation of Lev 23:11, which
states that the wave sheaf offering is to take place after the sabbath
day, i.e. Passover day (Josephus, Antiquities 3.250–251), as does the
Targum of Jonathan from the previous century (Targum of Jonathan, XXXI).
Since 16 Nisan was therefore Sunday, 15 Nisan was on the weekly sabbath,
and therefore Passover and the weekly sabbath were on the same day that
year.

Furthermore, the argument that Jesus rose from the dead at the end of
the sabbath but didn’t exit the tomb until the next morning requires
that, if a 72 hour period is used, Jesus spent about 12 hours more than
72 hours in the tomb, even though he was only dead for 72 of those
hours. This would be in conflict with Matt 12:40, the verse being
interpreted by the objectors as being a literal time period.

Reply to objection 4

There are no two distinct rest periods for these women any more than
there are two distinct sabbaths that week. Luke 23:56 states clearly
that the women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died, and then
rested on the sabbath. The verse immediately following, Luke 24:1, shows
that on the first day of the week they took these prepared spices to the
tomb. There is no indication that there is an entire unmentioned day
between Luke 23:55 and Luke 23:56; in fact the text prevents this
interpretation. Mark 16:1 causes confusion for the objectors, but it can
be clarified by looking at the tenses. The objectors split Mark 16:1 and
Mark 16:2 into two events taking place on two separate days (Friday and
Sunday) with an unmentioned day in between. This is not the case. The
purchasing (ηγορασαν) is an act that took place in the past. When the
sabbath was past, the women had already bought the spices. This was not
a case of the women buying the spices once the sabbath had ended – it
was a case of the sabbath ending with the spices already bought
(prepared, in fact, the day Jesus died, as per Luke 23:56.) They didn’t
venture out at night, and so the next verse, Mark 16:2, follows
immediately without a day between verses 1 and 2. The women arrived at
the tomb, spices already bought and prepared.

In conclusion:

Jesus died on preparation day, which can only mean Friday (Matt 27:62,
Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14,31,42

“On the third day” means that the first day was the day before yesterday
(Luke 13:32, Exodus 19:10-11)

Because “the third day” was Sunday, the day Jesus died was Friday

Had Jesus been in the tomb since Thursday, Sunday would have been the
fourth day (Acts 10:30)

The women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died (Luke 23:56)

Jesus was in the tomb on the sabbath

Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, Sunday (Luke 24:21,46)

The day after Passover was the wave sheaf offering (Lev 23:11), the day
Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:21,46)

The women arrived on Sunday morning to find the tomb empty
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Robert
2017-03-30 16:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
I answer that Jesus died on the day of preparation (John 19:31,42),
which was a name for the day before the weekly sabbath. The weekly
sabbath was Saturday, and so Jesus died on Friday. Furthermore, Jesus
rose on the third day, counting inclusively, at the same time the wave
sheaf offering was performed, on the morning after Passover day (Lev 23:11).
There was two Sabbaths that weekend. So now what?
humban
2017-03-31 00:26:52 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Mar 2017 09:06:49 -0700, Robert wanted to display his ignorance.
Of his myth & usenet protocol.
Post by Robert
Post by stephen
I answer that Jesus died on the day of preparation (John 19:31,42),
which was a name for the day before the weekly sabbath. The weekly
sabbath was Saturday, and so Jesus died on Friday. Furthermore, Jesus
rose on the third day, counting inclusively, at the same time the wave
sheaf offering was performed, on the morning after Passover day (Lev 23:11).
There was two Sabbaths that weekend. So now what?
Evidence, as most educated in the myth know, there is only one sabbath per
week. Damn if you aren't proud of your ignorance.


Deu 12:32 All the things that I command you, take heed to do them and
you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.

Pro 30:5 Every Word of God is refined, He is a shield to those who seek
refuge in Him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, that He not reprove you, and you be
found a liar.

Isa 8:20 To the Law and to the Testimony! If they do not speak
according to this Word, it is because there is no dawn to them!
duke
2017-03-31 17:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
Post by stephen
I answer that Jesus died on the day of preparation (John 19:31,42),
which was a name for the day before the weekly sabbath. The weekly
sabbath was Saturday, and so Jesus died on Friday. Furthermore, Jesus
rose on the third day, counting inclusively, at the same time the wave
sheaf offering was performed, on the morning after Passover day (Lev 23:11).
There was two Sabbaths that weekend. So now what?
How can you have 2 sabbaths on a weekend?

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Patrick
2017-03-30 16:10:28 UTC
Permalink
3 days and 3 nights – from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.

Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......

3 days. Easy.

Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Ted
2017-03-30 20:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights – from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
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Patrick
2017-03-30 21:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.

The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.

When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).

http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx

“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”

Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.

Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."



150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)


Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)

The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!

++++++++++

And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Ted
2017-03-30 23:25:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
<crickets>
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
Right. So all the Gospel accounts are consistent with a Saturday
resurrection.
Post by Patrick
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday.
They didn't expect him to rise. (Sorry if I deleted something relevant. It
was unintentional.)
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stephen
2017-04-01 09:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."

So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
astarte
2017-04-01 11:31:55 UTC
Permalink
snip
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
Among the Greek author, but not according to the Jewish method of tracking
time. There's ran from sundown to sundown. So to you as, well as
according to their time keeping, he was only there for two full days, not
three. Fri sundown to sat. sundown, day one. You get the drift I'm sure.
Post by stephen
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Only in xian mythology. Supposedly, it makes sense for we use the
roman/greek calendars. Sunday is the day of the most universal god
humanity has ever had. Without that god, they knew they & all life would
die. All life. So they did their best to keep that one happy. He is
prominent in xianity, but not as a roman/greek god. He is sol invictus, &
his birthday was claimed by the early xians as the birth od their non
historical messiah.

Snip
stephen
2017-04-02 16:00:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 13:10:50 +0200, stephen
snip
Post by astarte
Among the Greek author, but not according to the Jewish method of tracking
time. There's ran from sundown to sundown. So to you as, well as
according to their time keeping, he was only there for two full days, not
three. Fri sundown to sat. sundown, day one. You get the drift I'm sure.
Exactly. The Bible says Sunday was the 3rd day. The Bible says Friday
was the first day. The phrase "3 days and 3 nights" does not refer to a
literal 72 hour period. Friday/Saturday/Sunday is indeed, as has been
shown, the biblical method of counting time.
But it does. For that was the way of the hebrew calendar. Not the greek
one. When quoting hebrew tradition, it is not a good idea to apply other
traditions to it for it confuses those trying to understand what is going
on.
Both Old (Hebrew) and New (Greek language, Jewish context) show that
Friday being day 1, Saturday being day 2, and Sunday being day 3 is how
they counted. It's how Jesus counted, and how the Apostles counted, and
so it's the right way to count the days from Jesus' crucifixion to his
resurrection. Fully supported by the designation of Sunday as the 3rd
day and Friday as preparation day.
In this case a resurrection that historically, never took place.
It is a common technique among religions of the world. It is called
apologetics, & does not stand on it's own. In this, xianity is no
different than the nordic mythology support group.
snip
Post by astarte
Post by stephen
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Only in xian mythology. Supposedly, it makes sense for we use the
roman/greek calendars. Sunday is the day of the most universal god
humanity has ever had. Without that god, they knew they & all life would
die. All life. So they did their best to keep that one happy. He is
prominent in xianity, but not as a roman/greek god. He is sol invictus, &
his birthday was claimed by the early xians as the birth od their non
historical messiah.
Snip
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care
how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you
have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to
worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have
lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
-Marcus Aurelius, philosopher and writer (121-180)
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
astarte
2017-04-02 17:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 13:10:50 +0200, stephen
snip
Post by astarte
Among the Greek author, but not according to the Jewish method of tracking
time. There's ran from sundown to sundown. So to you as, well as
according to their time keeping, he was only there for two full days, not
three. Fri sundown to sat. sundown, day one. You get the drift I'm sure.
Exactly. The Bible says Sunday was the 3rd day. The Bible says Friday
was the first day. The phrase "3 days and 3 nights" does not refer to a
literal 72 hour period. Friday/Saturday/Sunday is indeed, as has been
shown, the biblical method of counting time.
But it does. For that was the way of the hebrew calendar. Not the greek
one. When quoting hebrew tradition, it is not a good idea to apply other
traditions to it for it confuses those trying to understand what is going
on.
Both Old (Hebrew) and New (Greek language, Jewish context) show that
Friday being day 1, Saturday being day 2, and Sunday being day 3 is how
they counted. It's how Jesus counted, and how the Apostles counted, and
so it's the right way to count the days from Jesus' crucifixion to his
resurrection. Fully supported by the designation of Sunday as the 3rd
day and Friday as preparation day.
I see you haven't studied the culture of first century judea. Quite all
right. I've met very few xians that have. Especially on their own. Side
note, this holds true for the majority of those that follow myths, brand
immaterial. Until you can provide evidence, non-biblical evidence, you are
just spouting apologetics. I've read & heard enough of them, thank you
very much.


BTW, using the 72 hour approach still does not agree with the xian version.
That would make it about 3 pm, sunday. As walksalone has said, you have to
feel sorry for those that have to twist history to make their myth real to
themselves. I have to agree.

Have a better day, & my feelings won't be hurt if you do not respond to
this missive.


Deu 12:32 All the things that I command you, take heed to do them and
you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.

Pro 30:5 Every Word of God is refined, He is a shield to those who seek
refuge in Him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, that He not reprove you, and you be
found a liar.

Isa 8:20 To the Law and to the Testimony! If they do not speak
according to this Word, it is because there is no dawn to them!
stephen
2017-04-02 19:43:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by astarte
Post by stephen
On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 13:10:50 +0200, stephen
snip
Post by astarte
Among the Greek author, but not according to the Jewish method of tracking
time. There's ran from sundown to sundown. So to you as, well as
according to their time keeping, he was only there for two full days, not
three. Fri sundown to sat. sundown, day one. You get the drift I'm sure.
Exactly. The Bible says Sunday was the 3rd day. The Bible says Friday
was the first day. The phrase "3 days and 3 nights" does not refer to a
literal 72 hour period. Friday/Saturday/Sunday is indeed, as has been
shown, the biblical method of counting time.
But it does. For that was the way of the hebrew calendar. Not the greek
one. When quoting hebrew tradition, it is not a good idea to apply other
traditions to it for it confuses those trying to understand what is going
on.
Both Old (Hebrew) and New (Greek language, Jewish context) show that
Friday being day 1, Saturday being day 2, and Sunday being day 3 is how
they counted. It's how Jesus counted, and how the Apostles counted, and
so it's the right way to count the days from Jesus' crucifixion to his
resurrection. Fully supported by the designation of Sunday as the 3rd
day and Friday as preparation day.
I see you haven't studied the culture of first century judea. Quite all
right. I've met very few xians that have. Especially on their own. Side
note, this holds true for the majority of those that follow myths, brand
immaterial. Until you can provide evidence, non-biblical evidence, you are
just spouting apologetics. I've read & heard enough of them, thank you
very much.
Clearly not the right ones. The Bible, and contemporary Jewish authors,
and real history books confirm that "the third day" after today is the
day after tomorrow, therefore the third day after a Friday is a Sunday.
By biblical standards, a Thursday cruxifixion has Sunday being the 4th
day, and a Wednesday crucifixion has Sunday being the 5th day. A 72
hour period starting today ends on the 4th day, making a literal 72 hour
period also problematic.
Post by astarte
BTW, using the 72 hour approach still does not agree with the xian version.
That would make it about 3 pm, sunday. As walksalone has said, you have to
feel sorry for those that have to twist history to make their myth real to
themselves. I have to agree.
Have a better day, & my feelings won't be hurt if you do not respond to
this missive.
Deu 12:32 All the things that I command you, take heed to do them and
you shall not add to it, nor take away from it.
Pro 30:5 Every Word of God is refined, He is a shield to those who seek
refuge in Him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to His Words, that He not reprove you, and you be
found a liar.
Isa 8:20 To the Law and to the Testimony! If they do not speak
according to this Word, it is because there is no dawn to them!
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
astarte
2017-04-02 23:49:18 UTC
Permalink
I've appreciated your reply's, but they appear to be going nowhere for
either one of us. So take care & have a full life. No sinning required.


Recognise this?

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.
stephen
2017-04-04 17:07:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by astarte
I've appreciated your reply's, but they appear to be going nowhere for
either one of us. So take care & have a full life. No sinning required.
As you will. God bless you too.
Post by astarte
Recognise this?
Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Michael Christ
2017-04-04 21:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by astarte
I've appreciated your reply's, but they appear to be going nowhere for
either one of us. So take care & have a full life. No sinning required.
As you will. God bless you too.
Not a bad reply to someone who has just told you to get fucked. :-).

I don't know if this is helpful but according to Jewish history, I think
part of a day was counted as a day, even if it was only a tiny part of a
day.




Michael Christ
stephen
2017-04-05 16:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Christ
Post by stephen
Post by astarte
I've appreciated your reply's, but they appear to be going nowhere for
either one of us. So take care & have a full life. No sinning required.
As you will. God bless you too.
Not a bad reply to someone who has just told you to get fucked. :-).
Well, I didn't take it that badly. I thought it was a fairly friendly
way of saying "We're not going to convince each other."
Post by Michael Christ
I don't know if this is helpful but according to Jewish history, I think
part of a day was counted as a day, even if it was only a tiny part of a
day.
That is correct. If it happens today, today is day 1.
Post by Michael Christ
Michael Christ
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
humban
2017-04-05 17:14:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Michael Christ
Post by stephen
Post by astarte
I've appreciated your reply's, but they appear to be going nowhere for
either one of us. So take care & have a full life. No sinning required.
As you will. God bless you too.
Not a bad reply to someone who has just told you to get fucked. :-).
I know her. Believe me or not, if she wants to tell you to get fucked.
She doesn't min e her words & there will be no doubt behind your seared
eyelids.
Post by stephen
Well, I didn't take it that badly. I thought it was a fairly friendly
way of saying "We're not going to convince each other."
Why should you? After all, not everyone emjoys a pissing contest.
Post by stephen
Post by Michael Christ
I don't know if this is helpful but according to Jewish history, I think
part of a day was counted as a day, even if it was only a tiny part of a
day.
That is correct. If it happens today, today is day 1.
As to that, seems like so much about history. Who did you ask.
Post by stephen
Post by Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Recognise this verse? Seems about right for the US.

Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.
stephen
2017-04-05 19:49:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by humban
Post by stephen
Post by Michael Christ
Post by stephen
Post by astarte
I've appreciated your reply's, but they appear to be going nowhere for
either one of us. So take care & have a full life. No sinning required.
As you will. God bless you too.
Not a bad reply to someone who has just told you to get fucked. :-).
I know her. Believe me or not, if she wants to tell you to get fucked.
She doesn't min e her words & there will be no doubt behind your seared
eyelids.
Post by stephen
Well, I didn't take it that badly. I thought it was a fairly friendly
way of saying "We're not going to convince each other."
Why should you? After all, not everyone emjoys a pissing contest.
99% of debates leave neither party convinced of anything different.
Post by humban
Post by stephen
Post by Michael Christ
I don't know if this is helpful but according to Jewish history, I think
part of a day was counted as a day, even if it was only a tiny part of a
day.
That is correct. If it happens today, today is day 1.
As to that, seems like so much about history. Who did you ask.
Post by stephen
Post by Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Recognise this verse? Seems about right for the US.
Now they stood beside the treasure,
On the mountain, dark and red.
Turned the stone and looked beneath it...
"Peace on Earth" was all it said.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Patrick
2017-04-01 14:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Good answer.
Estaban
2017-04-01 16:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.

Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
stephen
2017-04-02 11:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.

Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Estaban
2017-04-02 20:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.

Joh 19:13  When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 
Joh 19:14  And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! 

Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.

Mat 27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me? 

Mat 27:50  Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost. 
The first day into hell, upon his death.

Mat 27:57  When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: 

Mat 27:62  Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, 

And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.

Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.

Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
stephen
2017-04-04 17:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.

And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Estaban
2017-04-04 17:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...

For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year. The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God. It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.

So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.

The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
duke
2017-04-05 11:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year. The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
6th hour would be noon for the cross. Jesus died at 3pm. 3pm to 6pm is day 1.

The evidence is the ruse to bury Jesus prior to the Sabbath day starting at 6pm.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God. It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.
So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.
The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
stephen
2017-04-05 16:11:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year. The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
6th hour would be noon for the cross. Jesus died at 3pm. 3pm to 6pm is day 1.
The evidence is the ruse to bury Jesus prior to the Sabbath day starting at 6pm.
The Wednesday/Thursday crucifixion people are really just working
backwards from a dislike of Catholicism. The Bible is pretty clear, but
they found a way to tweak it just to be different from the Catholic Church.

Same with the whole Christmas/Easter debate - Catholics celebrate
virtually every important event and aspect of Jesus' life ... and that
leaves nothing unique left for the rest of them ... so they just don't
celebrate anything about Jesus or his life, and fill the gap with
pre-Christian shadows.

It's a matter of being Christian or a pseudo-Jew.

[snip]
Post by duke
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
duke
2017-04-06 11:58:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by duke
6th hour would be noon for the cross. Jesus died at 3pm. 3pm to 6pm is day 1.
The evidence is the ruse to bury Jesus prior to the Sabbath day starting at 6pm.
Oops, "ruse" should be "rush".
Post by stephen
The Wednesday/Thursday crucifixion people are really just working
backwards from a dislike of Catholicism. The Bible is pretty clear, but
they found a way to tweak it just to be different from the Catholic Church.
All they can do is tweak it away form the truth.
Post by stephen
Same with the whole Christmas/Easter debate - Catholics celebrate
virtually every important event and aspect of Jesus' life ... and that
leaves nothing unique left for the rest of them ... so they just don't
celebrate anything about Jesus or his life, and fill the gap with
pre-Christian shadows.
It's a matter of being Christian or a pseudo-Jew.
[snip]
the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
stephen
2017-04-05 16:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.

Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan

As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.

Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God.
It is debatable, as is evidenced by the debate out there. In fact it's
very much debatable, as someone like you, who has studied this topic so
well, should know.
Post by Estaban
It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.
So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.
God supports my doctrine. I find it in the Bible. Bible counts: 1, 2,
3. I count: 1, 2, 3.
Post by Estaban
The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
So you're saying the idiomatic expression in the Bible must be taken as
numerically literal, while all the other times the Bible counts, the
Bible got it wrong. Right.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Estaban
2017-04-05 21:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.

The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.

Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.

Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God.
It is debatable, as is evidenced by the debate out there. In fact it's
very much debatable, as someone like you, who has studied this topic so
well, should know.
Yes, you can argue until you are blue in the face. It will not change
scripture, it will not show that scripture is incorrect, it only shows
your faith is misplaced.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.
So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.
God supports my doctrine. I find it in the Bible. Bible counts: 1, 2,
3. I count: 1, 2, 3.
Then spell it out, like I did. You made excuses for everyone,
including the bible which God inspired.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
So you're saying the idiomatic expression in the Bible must be taken as
numerically literal, while all the other times the Bible counts, the
Bible got it wrong. Right.
Your idiomatic expression was not applicable.

How many ways can you shuffle things like a card deck before you run
out of excuses.
stephen
2017-04-06 07:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Like I said, there was one, with 15 Nisan falling on the 7th day of the
week. There's no getting around that.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Nope, correct.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
We agree.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
There is no need to have 3 days and 3 nights unless you force a
figurative statement to mean literal time. If you do that, you
contradict the rest of the biblical evidence.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.
The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.
14 Nisan was Friday = day 1 ("today")
15 Nisan was Saturday = day 2 ("tomorrow")
16 Nisan was Sunday = day 3 ("the third day")

16 Nisan was also the wave sheaf offering, which took place on the same
day Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week,
therefore 16 Nisan was the first day of the week.
Post by Estaban
Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.
Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
I've also filled in blanks. Ignoring them shows your bias.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God.
It is debatable, as is evidenced by the debate out there. In fact it's
very much debatable, as someone like you, who has studied this topic so
well, should know.
Yes, you can argue until you are blue in the face. It will not change
scripture, it will not show that scripture is incorrect, it only shows
your faith is misplaced.
I agree, it will not change scripture, which is clear.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.
So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.
God supports my doctrine. I find it in the Bible. Bible counts: 1, 2,
3. I count: 1, 2, 3.
Then spell it out, like I did. You made excuses for everyone,
including the bible which God inspired.
I did. See OP.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
So you're saying the idiomatic expression in the Bible must be taken as
numerically literal, while all the other times the Bible counts, the
Bible got it wrong. Right.
Your idiomatic expression was not applicable.
You force it to be literal, in contradiction with the rest of the Bible.
Post by Estaban
How many ways can you shuffle things like a card deck before you run
out of excuses.
That's what you're doing. A plain reading of the Bible has 3 days. You
want more than that.

You are really just working backwards from a dislike of Catholicism.
The Bible is pretty clear, but you found a way to shuffle it like a card
deck just to be different from the Catholic Church.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Estaban
2017-04-06 18:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Like I said, there was one, with 15 Nisan falling on the 7th day of the
week. There's no getting around that.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Nope, correct.
Ok, then lets play your game in public. As Jonah was three days and
nights in the whale, so shall the son be.

Friday till evening, the death of Jesus. Day one.
Saturday sabbath, evening/night and day until evening. First night,
second day.
Sunday evening/night and day until evening. 2nd night, third day.

Where was night three? Where was day Three seeing as Christ was found
missing from the tomb before daylight appeared. According to your
figures Jesus was in hell 2 days and 2 nights. Did Jesus lie? Did all
of prophecy lie? or are you incorrect?

There was a reason that Herod said the day of preparation for the
passover, this isolating it from the day of preparation for the 7th
day Sabbath.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
We agree.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
There is no need to have 3 days and 3 nights unless you force a
figurative statement to mean literal time. If you do that, you
contradict the rest of the biblical evidence.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.
On the seventh day God Rested. The Sabbath day. Not the first day of
the week.

Now it seems that you are also rewriting the days of Creation.

the 7th day Sabbath was never the first day of the week. Never.
Your histories and stories are full of flaws. Who on earth is teaching
you such manure as if it were steak?
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.
14 Nisan was Friday = day 1 ("today")
15 Nisan was Saturday = day 2 ("tomorrow")
16 Nisan was Sunday = day 3 ("the third day")
16 Nisan was also the wave sheaf offering, which took place on the same
day Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week,
therefore 16 Nisan was the first day of the week.
What are you going to make up next? Your stories are full of holes,
you don't know the difference between day and night, you apparently
get confused with a 24 hour day, and a night and day can be two
distinctly different days. As in Thursday Day, and Friday night.

You don't seem to be aware that there are two sabbaths in the
Passover, regardless what day it begins.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.
Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
I've also filled in blanks. Ignoring them shows your bias.
No, I went by scripture. Literal

Stephan, I see no reason to continue this with you, you change things
on the fly, you state erroneous things like the Sabbath is the first
day, you waffle, you pretend to agree, but then deny it all by your
descriptors. I see no honesty in you and the best you can do is retort
by parroting others expressions, yet you have no rhyme of reason for
it.

I just hope for your sake that you understand the way of salvation a
whole lot better than you do this. That you accept Jesus Christ by
faith, believing, as in the end that is what really matters. Jesus is
the redeemer, and Savior, and the works of man account to nothing as
far as justification is concerned.

As for me, this conversation is finished.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God.
It is debatable, as is evidenced by the debate out there. In fact it's
very much debatable, as someone like you, who has studied this topic so
well, should know.
Yes, you can argue until you are blue in the face. It will not change
scripture, it will not show that scripture is incorrect, it only shows
your faith is misplaced.
I agree, it will not change scripture, which is clear.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.
So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.
God supports my doctrine. I find it in the Bible. Bible counts: 1, 2,
3. I count: 1, 2, 3.
Then spell it out, like I did. You made excuses for everyone,
including the bible which God inspired.
I did. See OP.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
So you're saying the idiomatic expression in the Bible must be taken as
numerically literal, while all the other times the Bible counts, the
Bible got it wrong. Right.
Your idiomatic expression was not applicable.
You force it to be literal, in contradiction with the rest of the Bible.
Post by Estaban
How many ways can you shuffle things like a card deck before you run
out of excuses.
That's what you're doing. A plain reading of the Bible has 3 days. You
want more than that.
You are really just working backwards from a dislike of Catholicism.
The Bible is pretty clear, but you found a way to shuffle it like a card
deck just to be different from the Catholic Church.
stephen
2017-04-06 19:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
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Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Like I said, there was one, with 15 Nisan falling on the 7th day of the
week. There's no getting around that.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Nope, correct.
Ok, then lets play your game in public. As Jonah was three days and
nights in the whale, so shall the son be.
Idiomatic expressions are not literal. It's a phrase simply meaning 3 days.
Post by Estaban
Friday till evening, the death of Jesus. Day one.
Saturday sabbath, evening/night and day until evening. First night,
second day.
Sunday evening/night and day until evening. 2nd night, third day.
Where was night three? Where was day Three seeing as Christ was found
missing from the tomb before daylight appeared. According to your
figures Jesus was in hell 2 days and 2 nights. Did Jesus lie? Did all
of prophecy lie? or are you incorrect?
Jesus never lied. He used a common idiom that nobody too literally.
The Bible never lied. I am not incorrect.
Post by Estaban
There was a reason that Herod said the day of preparation for the
passover, this isolating it from the day of preparation for the 7th
day Sabbath.
There's no evidence for that claim.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
We agree.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
There is no need to have 3 days and 3 nights unless you force a
figurative statement to mean literal time. If you do that, you
contradict the rest of the biblical evidence.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.
On the seventh day God Rested. The Sabbath day. Not the first day of
the week.
Good. One correct answer. Not the first day of the week. I never said
it was. Read properly. If your comprehension of simple sentences is so
poor, I'm not surprised you have trouble understanding the Bible's clear
statements.
Post by Estaban
Now it seems that you are also rewriting the days of Creation.
One incorrect answer.
Post by Estaban
the 7th day Sabbath was never the first day of the week. Never.
Another correct one.
Post by Estaban
Your histories and stories are full of flaws. Who on earth is teaching
you such manure as if it were steak?
No idea what you're on about.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.
14 Nisan was Friday = day 1 ("today")
15 Nisan was Saturday = day 2 ("tomorrow")
16 Nisan was Sunday = day 3 ("the third day")
16 Nisan was also the wave sheaf offering, which took place on the same
day Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week,
therefore 16 Nisan was the first day of the week.
What are you going to make up next? Your stories are full of holes,
you don't know the difference between day and night, you apparently
get confused with a 24 hour day, and a night and day can be two
distinctly different days. As in Thursday Day, and Friday night.
Thursday day and Friday night span 3 days - Thursday, Friday, and partly
into the sabbath. Sunday would be the 4th day, but the Bible says it's
the 3rd. So it must be Friday, Saturday, Sunday = 3 days.
Post by Estaban
You don't seem to be aware that there are two sabbaths in the
Passover, regardless what day it begins.
You don't seem to be aware that there were not. No such thing is
mentioned in the Bible.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.
Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
I've also filled in blanks. Ignoring them shows your bias.
No, I went by scripture. Literal
Nope. You're confusing idiomatic expression with literal counting.
Post by Estaban
Stephan, I see no reason to continue this with you, you change things
on the fly
I don't.
Post by Estaban
you state erroneous things like the Sabbath is the first
day,
I never stated that. You misread.
Post by Estaban
you waffle, you pretend to agree, but then deny it all by your
descriptors. I see no honesty in you and the best you can do is retort
by parroting others expressions, yet you have no rhyme of reason for
it.
I just hope for your sake that you understand the way of salvation a
whole lot better than you do this. That you accept Jesus Christ by
faith, believing, as in the end that is what really matters. Jesus is
the redeemer, and Savior, and the works of man account to nothing as
far as justification is concerned.
Salvation has nothing to do with so-called doctrines about days of the week.
Post by Estaban
As for me, this conversation is finished.
So be it.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God.
It is debatable, as is evidenced by the debate out there. In fact it's
very much debatable, as someone like you, who has studied this topic so
well, should know.
Yes, you can argue until you are blue in the face. It will not change
scripture, it will not show that scripture is incorrect, it only shows
your faith is misplaced.
I agree, it will not change scripture, which is clear.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.
So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.
God supports my doctrine. I find it in the Bible. Bible counts: 1, 2,
3. I count: 1, 2, 3.
Then spell it out, like I did. You made excuses for everyone,
including the bible which God inspired.
I did. See OP.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
So you're saying the idiomatic expression in the Bible must be taken as
numerically literal, while all the other times the Bible counts, the
Bible got it wrong. Right.
Your idiomatic expression was not applicable.
You force it to be literal, in contradiction with the rest of the Bible.
Post by Estaban
How many ways can you shuffle things like a card deck before you run
out of excuses.
That's what you're doing. A plain reading of the Bible has 3 days. You
want more than that.
You are really just working backwards from a dislike of Catholicism.
The Bible is pretty clear, but you found a way to shuffle it like a card
deck just to be different from the Catholic Church.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Estaban
2017-04-06 22:54:36 UTC
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3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Like I said, there was one, with 15 Nisan falling on the 7th day of the
week. There's no getting around that.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Nope, correct.
Ok, then lets play your game in public. As Jonah was three days and
nights in the whale, so shall the son be.
Idiomatic expressions are not literal. It's a phrase simply meaning 3 days.
Post by Estaban
Friday till evening, the death of Jesus. Day one.
Saturday sabbath, evening/night and day until evening. First night,
second day.
Sunday evening/night and day until evening. 2nd night, third day.
Where was night three? Where was day Three seeing as Christ was found
missing from the tomb before daylight appeared. According to your
figures Jesus was in hell 2 days and 2 nights. Did Jesus lie? Did all
of prophecy lie? or are you incorrect?
Jesus never lied. He used a common idiom that nobody too literally.
The Bible never lied. I am not incorrect.
Post by Estaban
There was a reason that Herod said the day of preparation for the
passover, this isolating it from the day of preparation for the 7th
day Sabbath.
There's no evidence for that claim.
Post by Estaban
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The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
We agree.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
There is no need to have 3 days and 3 nights unless you force a
figurative statement to mean literal time. If you do that, you
contradict the rest of the biblical evidence.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.
On the seventh day God Rested. The Sabbath day. Not the first day of
the week.
Good. One correct answer. Not the first day of the week. I never said
it was. Read properly. If your comprehension of simple sentences is so
poor, I'm not surprised you have trouble understanding the Bible's clear
statements.
Post by Estaban
Now it seems that you are also rewriting the days of Creation.
One incorrect answer.
Post by Estaban
the 7th day Sabbath was never the first day of the week. Never.
Another correct one.
Post by Estaban
Your histories and stories are full of flaws. Who on earth is teaching
you such manure as if it were steak?
No idea what you're on about.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.
14 Nisan was Friday = day 1 ("today")
15 Nisan was Saturday = day 2 ("tomorrow")
16 Nisan was Sunday = day 3 ("the third day")
16 Nisan was also the wave sheaf offering, which took place on the same
day Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week,
therefore 16 Nisan was the first day of the week.
What are you going to make up next? Your stories are full of holes,
you don't know the difference between day and night, you apparently
get confused with a 24 hour day, and a night and day can be two
distinctly different days. As in Thursday Day, and Friday night.
Thursday day and Friday night span 3 days - Thursday, Friday, and partly
into the sabbath. Sunday would be the 4th day, but the Bible says it's
the 3rd. So it must be Friday, Saturday, Sunday = 3 days.
Post by Estaban
You don't seem to be aware that there are two sabbaths in the
Passover, regardless what day it begins.
You don't seem to be aware that there were not. No such thing is
mentioned in the Bible.
Read Exodus 12:16 These two holy days were declared before the Sabbath
Holy Day.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.
Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
I've also filled in blanks. Ignoring them shows your bias.
No, I went by scripture. Literal
Nope. You're confusing idiomatic expression with literal counting.
Post by Estaban
Stephan, I see no reason to continue this with you, you change things
on the fly
I don't.
Post by Estaban
you state erroneous things like the Sabbath is the first
day,
I never stated that. You misread.
This is the real reason I am replying. You are correct in that I did
misread your statement for some reason, and you did not say that. So I
apologize for that.

The rest of my comments stand. When someone, such as you, starts
mincing words, and excusing them away as you do, you destroy the word
of God by your actions. What I showed you stands, and it also totally
fulfills the prophecies of God given in the Old testament and as also
spoken by Jesus.

Anytime something doesn't make sense to you, you explain it all away,
stating that it really doesn't mean that. Heaven help the souls you
lead astray by your actions, weakening their faith and reason to
believe.

Start reading Exodus, and learn. Bye.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
you waffle, you pretend to agree, but then deny it all by your
descriptors. I see no honesty in you and the best you can do is retort
by parroting others expressions, yet you have no rhyme of reason for
it.
I just hope for your sake that you understand the way of salvation a
whole lot better than you do this. That you accept Jesus Christ by
faith, believing, as in the end that is what really matters. Jesus is
the redeemer, and Savior, and the works of man account to nothing as
far as justification is concerned.
Salvation has nothing to do with so-called doctrines about days of the week.
Post by Estaban
As for me, this conversation is finished.
So be it.
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Post by Estaban
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus
forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the
Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the
sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Jesus died about 3 PM the day of the preparation of the Passover.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God,
why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded
up the ghost.
The first day into hell, upon his death.
Mat 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,
the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
And so they established a guard which would prove to the world that he
was risen on the Third Day, even though the high priest paid them
money to lie about it.
Following the day of preparation they went to Pilate and requested
this. According to what you tried to say that would have been the
Saturday Sabbath and then they all would have broken the law of the
Sabbath.
Whether they would have broken the law of the sabbath is very much
debatable, and even those who think it would have broken the law
acknowledge that the Jewish leaders were desperate enough to justify a
legitimate exception, because the next "working" day would be after
Jesus claimed he would rise from the dead, and too late to get a guard
in place.
It is not debatable Stephen, right off the bat when the command was
given a man picked up a stick, work, and he was killed for his
disobedience to God.
It is debatable, as is evidenced by the debate out there. In fact it's
very much debatable, as someone like you, who has studied this topic so
well, should know.
Yes, you can argue until you are blue in the face. It will not change
scripture, it will not show that scripture is incorrect, it only shows
your faith is misplaced.
I agree, it will not change scripture, which is clear.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
It was considered a High Holy Day, and if they
did as you suggested then the Romans would have seen it and realized
that the Sabbath was indeed no different than any other day and never
again would they respect their right to worship on that day.
So here you are, at this point making excuses to justify your
doctrine, which is not supported by God.
God supports my doctrine. I find it in the Bible. Bible counts: 1, 2,
3. I count: 1, 2, 3.
Then spell it out, like I did. You made excuses for everyone,
including the bible which God inspired.
I did. See OP.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The Roman guards where under the authority of the High Priest which is
what the ruler told the High Priest anyhow, and since they were
Romans, not Jews, they could be ordered out at any time, which they
did.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Much easier to take God at his word than the weak understanding of
men.
I agree. Today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day. Simple.
3 days, 3 nights like Jonah per the words of the Lord. Real Simple.
So you're saying the idiomatic expression in the Bible must be taken as
numerically literal, while all the other times the Bible counts, the
Bible got it wrong. Right.
Your idiomatic expression was not applicable.
You force it to be literal, in contradiction with the rest of the Bible.
Post by Estaban
How many ways can you shuffle things like a card deck before you run
out of excuses.
That's what you're doing. A plain reading of the Bible has 3 days. You
want more than that.
You are really just working backwards from a dislike of Catholicism.
The Bible is pretty clear, but you found a way to shuffle it like a card
deck just to be different from the Catholic Church.
stephen
2017-04-06 23:04:19 UTC
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3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Like I said, there was one, with 15 Nisan falling on the 7th day of the
week. There's no getting around that.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Nope, correct.
Ok, then lets play your game in public. As Jonah was three days and
nights in the whale, so shall the son be.
Idiomatic expressions are not literal. It's a phrase simply meaning 3 days.
Post by Estaban
Friday till evening, the death of Jesus. Day one.
Saturday sabbath, evening/night and day until evening. First night,
second day.
Sunday evening/night and day until evening. 2nd night, third day.
Where was night three? Where was day Three seeing as Christ was found
missing from the tomb before daylight appeared. According to your
figures Jesus was in hell 2 days and 2 nights. Did Jesus lie? Did all
of prophecy lie? or are you incorrect?
Jesus never lied. He used a common idiom that nobody too literally.
The Bible never lied. I am not incorrect.
Post by Estaban
There was a reason that Herod said the day of preparation for the
passover, this isolating it from the day of preparation for the 7th
day Sabbath.
There's no evidence for that claim.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
We agree.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
There is no need to have 3 days and 3 nights unless you force a
figurative statement to mean literal time. If you do that, you
contradict the rest of the biblical evidence.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.
On the seventh day God Rested. The Sabbath day. Not the first day of
the week.
Good. One correct answer. Not the first day of the week. I never said
it was. Read properly. If your comprehension of simple sentences is so
poor, I'm not surprised you have trouble understanding the Bible's clear
statements.
Post by Estaban
Now it seems that you are also rewriting the days of Creation.
One incorrect answer.
Post by Estaban
the 7th day Sabbath was never the first day of the week. Never.
Another correct one.
Post by Estaban
Your histories and stories are full of flaws. Who on earth is teaching
you such manure as if it were steak?
No idea what you're on about.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.
14 Nisan was Friday = day 1 ("today")
15 Nisan was Saturday = day 2 ("tomorrow")
16 Nisan was Sunday = day 3 ("the third day")
16 Nisan was also the wave sheaf offering, which took place on the same
day Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week,
therefore 16 Nisan was the first day of the week.
What are you going to make up next? Your stories are full of holes,
you don't know the difference between day and night, you apparently
get confused with a 24 hour day, and a night and day can be two
distinctly different days. As in Thursday Day, and Friday night.
Thursday day and Friday night span 3 days - Thursday, Friday, and partly
into the sabbath. Sunday would be the 4th day, but the Bible says it's
the 3rd. So it must be Friday, Saturday, Sunday = 3 days.
Post by Estaban
You don't seem to be aware that there are two sabbaths in the
Passover, regardless what day it begins.
You don't seem to be aware that there were not. No such thing is
mentioned in the Bible.
Read Exodus 12:16 These two holy days were declared before the Sabbath
Holy Day.
Exodus 12:16 says nothing about two sabbaths in the week Jesus died.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.
Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
I've also filled in blanks. Ignoring them shows your bias.
No, I went by scripture. Literal
Nope. You're confusing idiomatic expression with literal counting.
Post by Estaban
Stephan, I see no reason to continue this with you, you change things
on the fly
I don't.
Post by Estaban
you state erroneous things like the Sabbath is the first
day,
I never stated that. You misread.
This is the real reason I am replying. You are correct in that I did
misread your statement for some reason, and you did not say that. So I
apologize for that.
The rest of my comments stand. When someone, such as you, starts
mincing words, and excusing them away as you do, you destroy the word
of God by your actions. What I showed you stands, and it also totally
fulfills the prophecies of God given in the Old testament and as also
spoken by Jesus.
Nobody is destroying the word of God here but you.
Post by Estaban
Anytime something doesn't make sense to you, you explain it all away,
stating that it really doesn't mean that. Heaven help the souls you
lead astray by your actions, weakening their faith and reason to
believe.
I help many with my blog and ebook. They are not led astray.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Estaban
2017-04-07 01:01:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Like I said, there was one, with 15 Nisan falling on the 7th day of the
week. There's no getting around that.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Nope, correct.
Ok, then lets play your game in public. As Jonah was three days and
nights in the whale, so shall the son be.
Idiomatic expressions are not literal. It's a phrase simply meaning 3 days.
Post by Estaban
Friday till evening, the death of Jesus. Day one.
Saturday sabbath, evening/night and day until evening. First night,
second day.
Sunday evening/night and day until evening. 2nd night, third day.
Where was night three? Where was day Three seeing as Christ was found
missing from the tomb before daylight appeared. According to your
figures Jesus was in hell 2 days and 2 nights. Did Jesus lie? Did all
of prophecy lie? or are you incorrect?
Jesus never lied. He used a common idiom that nobody too literally.
The Bible never lied. I am not incorrect.
Post by Estaban
There was a reason that Herod said the day of preparation for the
passover, this isolating it from the day of preparation for the 7th
day Sabbath.
There's no evidence for that claim.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
We agree.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
There is no need to have 3 days and 3 nights unless you force a
figurative statement to mean literal time. If you do that, you
contradict the rest of the biblical evidence.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.
On the seventh day God Rested. The Sabbath day. Not the first day of
the week.
Good. One correct answer. Not the first day of the week. I never said
it was. Read properly. If your comprehension of simple sentences is so
poor, I'm not surprised you have trouble understanding the Bible's clear
statements.
Post by Estaban
Now it seems that you are also rewriting the days of Creation.
One incorrect answer.
Post by Estaban
the 7th day Sabbath was never the first day of the week. Never.
Another correct one.
Post by Estaban
Your histories and stories are full of flaws. Who on earth is teaching
you such manure as if it were steak?
No idea what you're on about.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.
14 Nisan was Friday = day 1 ("today")
15 Nisan was Saturday = day 2 ("tomorrow")
16 Nisan was Sunday = day 3 ("the third day")
16 Nisan was also the wave sheaf offering, which took place on the same
day Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week,
therefore 16 Nisan was the first day of the week.
What are you going to make up next? Your stories are full of holes,
you don't know the difference between day and night, you apparently
get confused with a 24 hour day, and a night and day can be two
distinctly different days. As in Thursday Day, and Friday night.
Thursday day and Friday night span 3 days - Thursday, Friday, and partly
into the sabbath. Sunday would be the 4th day, but the Bible says it's
the 3rd. So it must be Friday, Saturday, Sunday = 3 days.
Post by Estaban
You don't seem to be aware that there are two sabbaths in the
Passover, regardless what day it begins.
You don't seem to be aware that there were not. No such thing is
mentioned in the Bible.
Read Exodus 12:16 These two holy days were declared before the Sabbath
Holy Day.
Exodus 12:16 says nothing about two sabbaths in the week Jesus died.
It was speaking to the first Passover, and what it was all about, and
how to honor it. That you have no insight is not surprising to me and
having read you and your excusing away things you do not understand.
It spoke to two holy days of the passover, etc.
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.
Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
I've also filled in blanks. Ignoring them shows your bias.
No, I went by scripture. Literal
Nope. You're confusing idiomatic expression with literal counting.
Post by Estaban
Stephan, I see no reason to continue this with you, you change things
on the fly
I don't.
Post by Estaban
you state erroneous things like the Sabbath is the first
day,
I never stated that. You misread.
This is the real reason I am replying. You are correct in that I did
misread your statement for some reason, and you did not say that. So I
apologize for that.
The rest of my comments stand. When someone, such as you, starts
mincing words, and excusing them away as you do, you destroy the word
of God by your actions. What I showed you stands, and it also totally
fulfills the prophecies of God given in the Old testament and as also
spoken by Jesus.
Nobody is destroying the word of God here but you.
Post by Estaban
Anytime something doesn't make sense to you, you explain it all away,
stating that it really doesn't mean that. Heaven help the souls you
lead astray by your actions, weakening their faith and reason to
believe.
I help many with my blog and ebook. They are not led astray.
Based on what you have written here I would never read your blog or
book. You couldn't even make sense of the last verse I quoted for you
here. Shows me how little you know of the passover. Plus you can't
even count days and nights.
stephen
2017-04-07 07:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Virtually all of Christendom proclaims that Jesus was raised from the
dead on the first day of the week, and on this conviction rests one of
the primary arguments for Sunday being “the Lord’s Day” and thus the
day on which Christians should come together in weekly worship
services.
The scriptural justification for this belief is the various Gospel
accounts of the resurrection. Hastings’ Dictionary of the New
Testament says, “In the brief Resurrection stories, as found in all
the Gospels, conspicuous emphasis is laid on ‘the first day of the
week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” It goes on to
list Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and
John 20:19 as proof of their assertion.
When one examines these verses, however, it quickly becomes clear that
in all but one of them the Gospel writers refer to the first day of
the week as the time when people went to the tomb, only to find it
empty, or when they saw the risen Christ for the first time. The
verses say nothing about the time when Christ rose, only that by the
time people arrived at the tomb “early on the first day” He was
already gone.
The only possible exception is Mark 16:9, which in most translations
is rendered “When He rose early on the first day of the week, …” (or
words to that effect).
While those verses may be debated, I don't think Luke 24:21 can be - the
time is on Sunday after the tomb was discovered to be empty, and it is
stated that "beside all this, to day is the third day since these things
were done."
So, if Sunday is the 3rd day since the described events, then Jesus must
have risen on Sunday. I find that to be fairly conclusive.
Post by Patrick
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Shortly before dawn is logical.
Post by Patrick
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/religion-spirituality-jesus-resurrection/87399.aspx
“Early on the first day of the week, after He had risen, …” (Holman
Christian Standard Bible);
“After rising from the dead, Jesus appeared early on Sunday morning …”
(The Message);
“Early on the first day of the week, after he arose, …” (New English
Translation);
“Now early on the first day of the week, after he rose, …” (Lexham
English Bible).
The use of a comma or commas in each of these translations places Mark
16:9 in the same category as the other verses; that is, it cannot be
said to prove “‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus
rose from the dead.”
Easter Sunday is one of the most festive events among Christians
worldwide. It commemorates Jesus Christ's resurrection from death, as
written in the Christian bible. Easter Sunday commemorates Jesus'
resurrection from death.
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures
today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My
goal."
150AD JUSTIN: "But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common
assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a
change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ
our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified
on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that
of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His
apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have
submitted to you also for your consideration." (First apology of
Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
Mary prepares spices she already had on Friday (Lk 23:56), then Sunday
(literally after sundown Saturday night Roman time) She bought more
spices. (Mk 16:1)
The women would have had all day Nisan 16 to prepare the spices (from
sunset, 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday Roman time). The women would have
ABSOLUTELY gone to the tomb on Friday instead of waiting two more days
till Sunday. They would definitely have considered the additional
decay such a two day delay would have brought about. In fact they
would likely have gone to the tomb at dawn Friday since it would not
take a long time to prepare the spices on Thursday night (Nisan 16),
after 6 PM, (Roman time.) They would have had a full night sleep and
simply got up early Friday Morning!
++++++++++
And finally.....
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
Thursday - 1st day - Put to death
Friday night/Friday - 1st night, 2nd day
Saturday night/Saturday - 2nd night, 3rd day
Sunday night/Sunday - 3rd night, Chris is risen.
Two Sabbaths that week- Friday 1st Sabbath, Saturday 2nd Sabbath,
Jesus was crucified on the preparation day. That only ever meant Friday
amongst the Jews. There was no day called "preparation day" associated
with the Passover.
Jesus himself counts "today, tomorrow, and the 3rd day". Fairly easy then.
Preparation for the Passover.
And that is your mistake. The term "preparation", as shown by scholars
and the Jewish writers of the time, and the early Christian writers,
refers to Friday, the preparation for the weekly sabbath. There was a
preparation day each week. The passover, being on the sabbath, had a
Friday before it. So the best way to translate the term without using
the word "preparation" is "Friday" - e.g. "Friday before the passover".
To use a term for Friday to refer to a Thursday that immediately
preceded a passover would be illogical.
And that fits in perfectly with the way Jesus counted - today, tomorrow,
and the third day. If Jesus died on a Thursday, Sunday would be the 4th
day by biblical time standards.
Stephen, I take it you ignored the scripture presented below?
V 14 And it was the preparation of the Passover,...
Yes, that's what it says. And the Greek Jews at that time understood
that phrase as being the Friday during the week Passover began. Even if
you want the word to mean something other than it does, it doesn't
really matter - Passover and the sabbath were the same day, as can be
shown simply by counting the days.
You can count all you want but your numbers never added up to 3 days
and 3 nights. Passover has to holy days, Sabbath days, days of rest
with no work. One at the beginning of the Passover week and one at the
end of it. Saturday Sabbath is a different day. Like I said
originally, there were two Sabbaths that week, and there is no getting
around it.
Like I said, there was one, with 15 Nisan falling on the 7th day of the
week. There's no getting around that.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
For all your mumbo jumbo the truth was right there is scripture, all
along. Friday is also "not before the passover." It could not be.
Passover was a week long event with a high holy day, separate from the
7th day Sabbath that year.
Nope, same day that year.
Incorrect.
Nope, correct.
Ok, then lets play your game in public. As Jonah was three days and
nights in the whale, so shall the son be.
Idiomatic expressions are not literal. It's a phrase simply meaning 3 days.
Post by Estaban
Friday till evening, the death of Jesus. Day one.
Saturday sabbath, evening/night and day until evening. First night,
second day.
Sunday evening/night and day until evening. 2nd night, third day.
Where was night three? Where was day Three seeing as Christ was found
missing from the tomb before daylight appeared. According to your
figures Jesus was in hell 2 days and 2 nights. Did Jesus lie? Did all
of prophecy lie? or are you incorrect?
Jesus never lied. He used a common idiom that nobody too literally.
The Bible never lied. I am not incorrect.
Post by Estaban
There was a reason that Herod said the day of preparation for the
passover, this isolating it from the day of preparation for the 7th
day Sabbath.
There's no evidence for that claim.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The best way to understand this is to learn
a little about Judaism. Also, to believe scripture.
I don't think it's my knowledge that is lacking. Passover CAN refer to
the full 8-day event, or it can refer to one specific day of those 8,
namely 15 Nisan. In general, the Bible refers to 15 Nisan as Passover,
and not the whole week.
No, Passover week in Jerusalem is seven days, and always has been. Far
away from Jerusalem 8 days might be in order so as to cover all the
bases as to the correct day. Since they might not know what the 1st
day of the month was per the ruling of the Priest.
We agree.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Jesus died on Friday (preparation day) 14 Nisan with the lamb sacrifice
Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday 15 Nisan
Jesus rose from the tomb on Sunday 16 Nisan
15th day of Nisan, first day of the Passover. The 14th day was the day
of preparation, the day that Christ was crucified, and buried.
Thursday which started the evening before. Evening to evening, 24 hour
day. 1 day and one night.
There is no need to have 3 days and 3 nights unless you force a
figurative statement to mean literal time. If you do that, you
contradict the rest of the biblical evidence.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
As the Jewish historians of the time confirm, the wave sheaf offering
occurred on 16 Nisan, the first day of ULB, irrespective of the day of
the week. They didn't believe any of this modern nonsense about the day
after the first weekly sabbath after Passover.
Regardless of any wave, the day after the Saturday Sabbath was always
the first day of the week.
On the seventh day God Rested. The Sabbath day. Not the first day of
the week.
Good. One correct answer. Not the first day of the week. I never said
it was. Read properly. If your comprehension of simple sentences is so
poor, I'm not surprised you have trouble understanding the Bible's clear
statements.
Post by Estaban
Now it seems that you are also rewriting the days of Creation.
One incorrect answer.
Post by Estaban
the 7th day Sabbath was never the first day of the week. Never.
Another correct one.
Post by Estaban
Your histories and stories are full of flaws. Who on earth is teaching
you such manure as if it were steak?
No idea what you're on about.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
The 15th day of Nisan was Friday, 16th Saturday, 17th Sunday.
14 Nisan was Friday = day 1 ("today")
15 Nisan was Saturday = day 2 ("tomorrow")
16 Nisan was Sunday = day 3 ("the third day")
16 Nisan was also the wave sheaf offering, which took place on the same
day Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week,
therefore 16 Nisan was the first day of the week.
What are you going to make up next? Your stories are full of holes,
you don't know the difference between day and night, you apparently
get confused with a 24 hour day, and a night and day can be two
distinctly different days. As in Thursday Day, and Friday night.
Thursday day and Friday night span 3 days - Thursday, Friday, and partly
into the sabbath. Sunday would be the 4th day, but the Bible says it's
the 3rd. So it must be Friday, Saturday, Sunday = 3 days.
Post by Estaban
You don't seem to be aware that there are two sabbaths in the
Passover, regardless what day it begins.
You don't seem to be aware that there were not. No such thing is
mentioned in the Bible.
Read Exodus 12:16 These two holy days were declared before the Sabbath
Holy Day.
Exodus 12:16 says nothing about two sabbaths in the week Jesus died.
It was speaking to the first Passover, and what it was all about, and
how to honor it. That you have no insight is not surprising to me and
having read you and your excusing away things you do not understand.
It spoke to two holy days of the passover, etc.
It doesn't say that there were two sabbaths in the week Jesus died.
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Post by stephen
Post by Estaban
Jesus died on the 14th Day Thurs and buried, Soul in Hell, 1st day.
Friday, in the ground 24 hours, 1st night/2nd day.
Saturday, in the ground 2nd night/3rd day.
Sunday, in the ground 3rd night, and rose from the grave,before sunup,
the 4th day he was found missing by the women.
Whatever nonsense you are referring to above you will need to
document. The first day of Passover is a Sabbath, and the 7th Day is a
Sabbath, a day of rest. It has been that way since the Hebrews were
delivered from Egypt.
Post by stephen
Jesus was the wave sheaf offering. Therefore Jesus rose on 16 Nisan.
Counting from Thursday has 16 Nisan on Saturday, but Jesus rose from the
dead on Sunday ... so either you're wrong in your counting, or Jesus
mis-timed his resurrection by a day.
OR, you are wrong. I filled in the blanks above. Ignoring them shows
your bias.
I've also filled in blanks. Ignoring them shows your bias.
No, I went by scripture. Literal
Nope. You're confusing idiomatic expression with literal counting.
Post by Estaban
Stephan, I see no reason to continue this with you, you change things
on the fly
I don't.
Post by Estaban
you state erroneous things like the Sabbath is the first
day,
I never stated that. You misread.
This is the real reason I am replying. You are correct in that I did
misread your statement for some reason, and you did not say that. So I
apologize for that.
The rest of my comments stand. When someone, such as you, starts
mincing words, and excusing them away as you do, you destroy the word
of God by your actions. What I showed you stands, and it also totally
fulfills the prophecies of God given in the Old testament and as also
spoken by Jesus.
Nobody is destroying the word of God here but you.
Post by Estaban
Anytime something doesn't make sense to you, you explain it all away,
stating that it really doesn't mean that. Heaven help the souls you
lead astray by your actions, weakening their faith and reason to
believe.
I help many with my blog and ebook. They are not led astray.
Based on what you have written here I would never read your blog or
book. You couldn't even make sense of the last verse I quoted for you
here. Shows me how little you know of the passover. Plus you can't
even count days and nights.
Then my blog and book are not for you. They help others who are willing
to learn.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Patrick
2017-03-30 21:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....

If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.

If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
Ted
2017-03-30 23:32:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....
If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
That's true. Good point. But Jesus said three days and three nights. It's
possible he rose at dusk on Saturday, being crucified on Wednesday. The
WWCG, cited earlier in this thread, claims that particular Thursday to have
been a special type of sabbath. And their explanation is more consistent
with the scriptural verses than is the RCC's.
--
This message is encrypted with TardBlock® which is special software that
prevents retards from reading or responding to posts. Can you read this
and respond? If not, then you must be retarded, because TardBlock® blocks
only retards. Everybody else can read it and respond to it.
Patrick
2017-03-31 13:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....
If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
That's true. Good point. But Jesus said three days and three nights. It's
possible he rose at dusk on Saturday, being crucified on Wednesday. The
WWCG, cited earlier in this thread, claims that particular Thursday to have
been a special type of sabbath. And their explanation is more consistent
with the scriptural verses than is the RCC's.
Since this was 2000 years ago, you can speculate all you want.
In the end, does it really matter?
Ted
2017-04-01 03:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....
If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
That's true. Good point. But Jesus said three days and three nights. It's
possible he rose at dusk on Saturday, being crucified on Wednesday. The
WWCG, cited earlier in this thread, claims that particular Thursday to have
been a special type of sabbath. And their explanation is more consistent
with the scriptural verses than is the RCC's.
Since this was 2000 years ago, you can speculate all you want.
In the end, does it really matter?
I'm not the OP. And no, it doesn't matter, because it's bullshit anyway.
--
This message is encrypted with TardBlock® which is special software that
prevents retards from reading or responding to posts. Can you read this
and respond? If not, then you must be retarded, because TardBlock® blocks
only retards. Everybody else can read it and respond to it.
Patrick
2017-04-01 14:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....
If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
That's true. Good point. But Jesus said three days and three nights. It's
possible he rose at dusk on Saturday, being crucified on Wednesday. The
WWCG, cited earlier in this thread, claims that particular Thursday to have
been a special type of sabbath. And their explanation is more consistent
with the scriptural verses than is the RCC's.
Since this was 2000 years ago, you can speculate all you want.
In the end, does it really matter?
I'm not the OP. And no, it doesn't matter, because it's bullshit anyway.
And.... you just can't wait to jump into the middle of it?
Ted
2017-04-01 22:22:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....
If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
That's true. Good point. But Jesus said three days and three nights. It's
possible he rose at dusk on Saturday, being crucified on Wednesday. The
WWCG, cited earlier in this thread, claims that particular Thursday to have
been a special type of sabbath. And their explanation is more consistent
with the scriptural verses than is the RCC's.
Since this was 2000 years ago, you can speculate all you want.
In the end, does it really matter?
I'm not the OP. And no, it doesn't matter, because it's bullshit anyway.
And.... you just can't wait to jump into the middle of it?
I.e., pointing out the bullshit.
--
This message is encrypted with TardBlock® which is special software that
prevents retards from reading or responding to posts. Can you read this
and respond? If not, then you must be retarded, because TardBlock® blocks
only retards. Everybody else can read it and respond to it.
Patrick
2017-04-02 00:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....
If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
That's true. Good point. But Jesus said three days and three nights. It's
possible he rose at dusk on Saturday, being crucified on Wednesday. The
WWCG, cited earlier in this thread, claims that particular Thursday to have
been a special type of sabbath. And their explanation is more consistent
with the scriptural verses than is the RCC's.
Since this was 2000 years ago, you can speculate all you want.
In the end, does it really matter?
I'm not the OP. And no, it doesn't matter, because it's bullshit anyway.
And.... you just can't wait to jump into the middle of it?
I.e., pointing out the bullshit.
Ahhhhhhhhh... Now I remember....
Ted
2017-04-03 21:52:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Crap... hit the wrong button....
If Jesus raised literally "on the third day", then the third day was
not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally "after three days", then Jesus would have
risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE
FOURTH DAY.
That's true. Good point. But Jesus said three days and three nights. It's
possible he rose at dusk on Saturday, being crucified on Wednesday. The
WWCG, cited earlier in this thread, claims that particular Thursday to have
been a special type of sabbath. And their explanation is more consistent
with the scriptural verses than is the RCC's.
Since this was 2000 years ago, you can speculate all you want.
In the end, does it really matter?
I'm not the OP. And no, it doesn't matter, because it's bullshit anyway.
And.... you just can't wait to jump into the middle of it?
I.e., pointing out the bullshit.
Ahhhhhhhhh... Now I remember....
LOL.
--
This message is encrypted with TardBlock® which is special software that
prevents retards from reading or responding to posts. Can you read this
and respond? If not, then you must be retarded, because TardBlock® blocks
only retards. Everybody else can read it and respond to it.
duke
2017-03-31 17:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
This is the basis of Christian faith.
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
So........ start your own church... Everyone does it.
the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Ted
2017-04-01 03:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by duke
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
That is true. Saturday evening would have been Sunday to the Jews. Good
point, duke.
--
This message is encrypted with TardBlock® which is special software that
prevents retards from reading or responding to posts. Can you read this
and respond? If not, then you must be retarded, because TardBlock® blocks
only retards. Everybody else can read it and respond to it.
duke
2017-04-01 11:45:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ted
Post by duke
Post by Ted
Post by Patrick
3 days and 3 nights ? from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong?s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn?t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
Lemme see.
Friday ..... Saturday ...... Sunday......
3 days. Easy.
2 nights.
Post by Patrick
Jesus Rose from the dead on Sunday.
Not in the Bible.
Yep - any time from 6pm Saturday to 6am Sunday which was day 3.
That is true. Saturday evening would have been Sunday to the Jews. Good
point, duke.
John 20:1New International Version (NIV)
The Empty Tomb
20 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene
went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.


the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
QuoteMasterLA
2017-03-31 17:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Patrick
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
The changing of Sunday as the day of worship may
sometimes have more to do with generating greater
profits than anything else. . . .


The Casa di Dante is located on the Via Santa
Margherita and is easily identified by the large
banner suspended from the stone facade partway
up the alleyway: MUSEO CASA DI DANTE.

Sienna eyed the banner with uncertainty. "We're
going to Dante's house?"

"Not exactly," Langdon said. "Dante lived around
the corner. This is more of a Dante . . . museum."

[...]

"E chiusa," an old man called out, seeing them
approach the door. "E il giorno di riposo."

"Closed for the Sabbath?" Langdon felt suddenly
disoriented again. He looked at Sienna. "Isn't
today . . . Monday?"

She nodded. "Florentines prefer a Monday Sabbath."

Langdon groaned, suddenly recalling the city's
unusual weekly calendar. Because tourist dollars
flowed most heavily on weekends, many Florentine
merchants chose to move the Christian "day of rest"
from Sunday to Monday to prevent the Sabbath from
cutting too deeply into their bottom line.

--Dan Brown (1964- )
_Inferno_ [2013], Chapter 51
Robert
2017-03-31 17:49:22 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:00:00 -0800, QuoteMasterLA
Post by QuoteMasterLA
Post by Patrick
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
The changing of Sunday as the day of worship may
sometimes have more to do with generating greater
profits than anything else. . . .
The Casa di Dante is located on the Via Santa
Margherita and is easily identified by the large
banner suspended from the stone facade partway
up the alleyway: MUSEO CASA DI DANTE.
Sienna eyed the banner with uncertainty. "We're
going to Dante's house?"
"Not exactly," Langdon said. "Dante lived around
the corner. This is more of a Dante . . . museum."
[...]
"E chiusa," an old man called out, seeing them
approach the door. "E il giorno di riposo."
"Closed for the Sabbath?" Langdon felt suddenly
disoriented again. He looked at Sienna. "Isn't
today . . . Monday?"
She nodded. "Florentines prefer a Monday Sabbath."
Langdon groaned, suddenly recalling the city's
unusual weekly calendar. Because tourist dollars
flowed most heavily on weekends, many Florentine
merchants chose to move the Christian "day of rest"
from Sunday to Monday to prevent the Sabbath from
cutting too deeply into their bottom line.
--Dan Brown (1964- )
_Inferno_ [2013], Chapter 51
An excellent example of a many "Christian's", and who actually rules
in their life.
astarte
2017-04-01 11:43:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 10:49:22 -0700, Robert wasted 52 lines to leave a
puddle on the kitchen table. This is it.
snip
Post by Robert
An excellent example of a many "Christian's", and who actually rules
in their life.
Like you, say one, dance another as long you think you are in with your
gods? Like that?

Sounds familiar, never seen any evidence of it.

Matthew 7:7-11

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it
will be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks
finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. "Or what man is there among
you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? read more.
"Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? "If you
then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much
more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask
Him!



Matthew 21:22

"And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."


John 15:7

"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and
it will be done for you."
duke
2017-04-02 13:18:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
On Fri, 31 Mar 2017 09:00:00 -0800, QuoteMasterLA
Post by QuoteMasterLA
Post by Patrick
Christians have been worshipping on Sundays for thousands of years.
And then some new yay-hoo comes along who wants to change it.
The changing of Sunday as the day of worship may
sometimes have more to do with generating greater
profits than anything else. . . .
The Casa di Dante is located on the Via Santa
Margherita and is easily identified by the large
banner suspended from the stone facade partway
up the alleyway: MUSEO CASA DI DANTE.
Sienna eyed the banner with uncertainty. "We're
going to Dante's house?"
"Not exactly," Langdon said. "Dante lived around
the corner. This is more of a Dante . . . museum."
[...]
"E chiusa," an old man called out, seeing them
approach the door. "E il giorno di riposo."
"Closed for the Sabbath?" Langdon felt suddenly
disoriented again. He looked at Sienna. "Isn't
today . . . Monday?"
She nodded. "Florentines prefer a Monday Sabbath."
Langdon groaned, suddenly recalling the city's
unusual weekly calendar. Because tourist dollars
flowed most heavily on weekends, many Florentine
merchants chose to move the Christian "day of rest"
from Sunday to Monday to prevent the Sabbath from
cutting too deeply into their bottom line.
--Dan Brown (1964- )
_Inferno_ [2013], Chapter 51
An excellent example of a many "Christian's", and who actually rules
in their life.
You are very involved in that mistake.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
2017-03-31 17:27:43 UTC
Permalink
3 days and 3 nights – from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
The key is that the Jews used the lunar calendar. Thus the Sabbath started
Friday at 6 pm until Saturday 6pm. Jesus died on the Friday at 3pm
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
It is important to note here that in the Bible, days begin at sunset.
This is most relevant here in the crucifixion narratives, which show the
sabbath about to begin as sunset approached on the day Jesus died.
Matt 12:40 (KJV) – For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Objection 1. It would seem that “three days and three nights” is a
phrase that must be taken literally, and therefore Jesus spent 72 hours
in the tomb in order for his words in Matthew to be true. The Bible does
not count inclusively, and if Jesus was in the tomb for three days, that
too means a 72 hour time period. If Jesus was buried shortly before
sunset (John 19:42) then he must have risen shortly before sunset 72
hours later. Since Jesus rested in the tomb on the sabbath, and was
risen by the next morning, he must have risen from the dead on the
sabbath, shortly before sunset. 72 hours before the sunset that ends the
sabbath is the sunset on Wednesday evening. Therefore Jesus was
crucified on Wednesday and rose as the sabbath ended 72 hours later.
Objection 2. Further, there were two sabbaths in the week Jesus was
crucified. One was the Passover day, 15 Nisan, which occurred on
Thursday. The next was the weekly sabbath, which occurred on Saturday.
Wednesday 14 Nisan was the preparation day mentioned in John 19:31,42,
the preparation for the Passover.
Objection 3. Further, Jesus was typified by the wave sheaf offering,
which took place on the day after the weekly sabbath during Passover
week. This is not when Jesus rose from the dead, for he had risen from
the dead 12 hours previously at the end of the weekly sabbath, but
rather when he came out of the tomb.
Objection 4. Further, the above objections are confirmed by the two
distinct rest periods when the women rested between buying and preparing
spices and going to the tomb to anoint Jesus’ body. The women had no
time to purchase spices on Wednesday between Jesus’ burial and sunset.
They rested on the sabbath that was Passover day on Thursday, and then
on Friday they purchased (Mark 16:1) and prepared the spices (Luke
23:56). Then they rested on the weekly sabbath (Luke 23:56), and went to
the tomb early on Sunday morning (Luke 24:1, Mark 16:2).
On the contrary, it is written – Jesus rose on the third day (Luke
24:46) and Sunday was the third day (Luke 24:21). Therefore he died on
Friday, the first day of three in a series.
I answer that Jesus died on the day of preparation (John 19:31,42),
which was a name for the day before the weekly sabbath. The weekly
sabbath was Saturday, and so Jesus died on Friday. Furthermore, Jesus
rose on the third day, counting inclusively, at the same time the wave
sheaf offering was performed, on the morning after Passover day (Lev 23:11).
Reply to objection 1
“Three days and three nights” is an idiomatic expression that, if taken
literally, contradicts other passages in Scripture. It stands in
contrast with multiple mentions of “the third day” in the New Testament.
If “the third day” is used in the Bible to refer to a day 72 hours from
the start of counting, only then can “three days and three nights” be
taken literally. Luke 13:32 shows Jesus speaking of “today, tomorrow,
and the third day” – so the third day is the day after tomorrow, if we
start counting today. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the
third day is Sunday. Similarly in Exodus 19:10-11, God tells Moses to
sanctify the people “today and tomorrow” and to be ready on “the third
day“. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the third day is
Sunday. Luke 23:21 confirms that the third day after Jesus died was Sunday.
Furthermore, Scripture shows that if Jesus had died on Wednesday, then
Sunday would have been the fifth day, and if Jesus had died on a
Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day. Scripture shows us such
a 72 hour period, lasting from the morning of one day, through the next
day, and the day after that, and ending on the morning of the fourth
day. Beginning in Acts 10:3, Cornelius has a vision at the ninth hour.
In verse 9, it is the next day, “on the morrow“. Verse 23 shows us the
day after that, “on the morrow“. Verse 24 shows us the day after that,
again “the morrow“. And on this day, in verse 30, Cornelius tells us
that his vision was four days ago that very hour. Cornelius counted this
way: today, tomorrow, the next day, and then the fourth day. If Jesus
had been crucified on a Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day,
but Luke 24:21 and Luke 24:46 tell us that Sunday was the third day. If
Jesus had been crucified on a Wednesday, Sunday would have been the
fifth day, not the third.
Therefore, following the way the authors of the Bible counted of three
or four days, we can be certain that if Jesus rose on Sunday, then he
had to have been crucified on Friday. “Three days and three nights” is
an idiomatic expression that emphasises three days, but not the number
of hours involved. Esther 4:16-5:1 confirms this.
Reply to objection 2
Nowhere does the Bible state clearly that there were two sabbaths that
week. This needs to be inferred after much convoluted rearrangement of
Scripture. In each of the Gospels we see a three day sequence presented
– preparation, the sabbath, and the third day. We see this in Matt
27:62-28:1; again in Mark 15:42-16:2; again in Luke 23:54-24:1; and
finally in John 19:31,42-20:1.
The “preparation” day meant only the day before the weekly sabbath, not
some preparation day for the Passover not called this in the Bible. The
Greek word on the New Testament is “?????????“. The word is used six
times in the New Testament, all referring to the day Jesus was
crucified, and it is defined in Mark 15:42 as “the day before the
sabbath“. By the time of the New Testament, “sabbath” specifically
referred to the 7th day of the week. In the Greek of the time, the term
????????? had become, for the Jews, a synonym for the day before the
weekly sabbath. No textual evidence to the contrary exists. The Didache,
a Christian document written between 70 and 120 AD, confirms that
????????? is a day of the week used for fasting. The longer (and more
recent) version of St Ignatius of Antioch’s letter to the Trallians
(dating to about 300 AD) refers to three consecutive days – preparation,
the sabbath, and the first day – as being the days on which Jesus died,
rested, and rose.
Reply to objection 3
The wave sheaf offering after Passover represented Jesus’ rising from
the dead, and instruction is given in Lev 23:11. In keeping with the
usage of the word at the time Leviticus was written, “sabbath” could
refer to the weekly sabbath or to Passover in this verse. However, we
know it took place on the day after Passover, on 16 Nisan, whichever day
of the week it occurred. The first century AD historian Josephus
confirms that this was the Jewish interpretation of Lev 23:11, which
states that the wave sheaf offering is to take place after the sabbath
day, i.e. Passover day (Josephus, Antiquities 3.250–251), as does the
Targum of Jonathan from the previous century (Targum of Jonathan, XXXI).
Since 16 Nisan was therefore Sunday, 15 Nisan was on the weekly sabbath,
and therefore Passover and the weekly sabbath were on the same day that
year.
Furthermore, the argument that Jesus rose from the dead at the end of
the sabbath but didn’t exit the tomb until the next morning requires
that, if a 72 hour period is used, Jesus spent about 12 hours more than
72 hours in the tomb, even though he was only dead for 72 of those
hours. This would be in conflict with Matt 12:40, the verse being
interpreted by the objectors as being a literal time period.
Reply to objection 4
There are no two distinct rest periods for these women any more than
there are two distinct sabbaths that week. Luke 23:56 states clearly
that the women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died, and then
rested on the sabbath. The verse immediately following, Luke 24:1, shows
that on the first day of the week they took these prepared spices to the
tomb. There is no indication that there is an entire unmentioned day
between Luke 23:55 and Luke 23:56; in fact the text prevents this
interpretation. Mark 16:1 causes confusion for the objectors, but it can
be clarified by looking at the tenses. The objectors split Mark 16:1 and
Mark 16:2 into two events taking place on two separate days (Friday and
Sunday) with an unmentioned day in between. This is not the case. The
purchasing (????????) is an act that took place in the past. When the
sabbath was past, the women had already bought the spices. This was not
a case of the women buying the spices once the sabbath had ended – it
was a case of the sabbath ending with the spices already bought
(prepared, in fact, the day Jesus died, as per Luke 23:56.) They didn’t
venture out at night, and so the next verse, Mark 16:2, follows
immediately without a day between verses 1 and 2. The women arrived at
the tomb, spices already bought and prepared.
Jesus died on preparation day, which can only mean Friday (Matt 27:62,
Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14,31,42
“On the third day” means that the first day was the day before yesterday
(Luke 13:32, Exodus 19:10-11)
Because “the third day” was Sunday, the day Jesus died was Friday
Had Jesus been in the tomb since Thursday, Sunday would have been the
fourth day (Acts 10:30)
The women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died (Luke 23:56)
Jesus was in the tomb on the sabbath
Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, Sunday (Luke 24:21,46)
The day after Passover was the wave sheaf offering (Lev 23:11), the day
Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:21,46)
The women arrived on Sunday morning to find the tomb empty
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
tesla sTinker
2017-04-03 23:12:13 UTC
Permalink
Luke, you must look in Luke.
Sundays Observance is set by the Old Testament. trueCatholic.
Jesus had said, He did not come to change the old law.
This is a true holy mystery of the true Catholic Church, The Power of
God, because yes, Jesus rose again on that same day. Luke delcares,
1st day of the week they did not find him inside the tomb. So, you must
use the other book. Some believe that to be monday, some sunday. But
even we know, the pagans doctored the clock with changes, just as today,
they have even removed hours from it, the real time of day.

And since we are the weak administration of the true remnant, which all
of you are not a member of us but continue in your heresy, we use the
real bible, not the invalid books
that you all so seem to not want to quote all the time instead. which
is plain nonsense. You will learn the wrong way. KJV is an invalid
book and is not authentic text at all...

verse 11, it even says, you would believe it is just idle tales, and not
the real truth. And you know what, you all certainly do do this in this
bogus heaven on earth world that you all do live in...$$$ Avoiding his
true Catholic Church truths.

true Bible link,

Luke 24

http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/dogma/catholicbooks/HolyBible/NewTestament/Luke.htm#chpt24

AND on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came
to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.

2 And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre.

3 And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

4 And it came to pass, as they were astonished in their mind at this,
behold, two men stood by them, in shining apparel.

5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their countenance towards the
ground, they said unto them: Why seek you the living with the dead?

6 He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he
was in Galilee,

7 Saying: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men,
and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

8 And they remembered his words.

9 And going back from the sepulchre, they told all these things to the
eleven, and to all the rest.

10 And it was Mary Magdalen, and Joanna, and Mary of James, and the
other women that were with them, who told these things to the apostles.

11 And these words seemed to them as idle tales; and they did not
believe them.

12 But Peter rising up, ran to the sepulchre, and stooping down, he saw
the linen cloths laid by themselves; and went away wondering in himself
at that which was come to pass.
Post by stephen
3 days and 3 nights – from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
It is important to note here that in the Bible, days begin at sunset.
This is most relevant here in the crucifixion narratives, which show the
sabbath about to begin as sunset approached on the day Jesus died.
Matt 12:40 (KJV) – For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Objection 1. It would seem that “three days and three nights” is a
phrase that must be taken literally, and therefore Jesus spent 72 hours
in the tomb in order for his words in Matthew to be true. The Bible does
not count inclusively, and if Jesus was in the tomb for three days, that
too means a 72 hour time period. If Jesus was buried shortly before
sunset (John 19:42) then he must have risen shortly before sunset 72
hours later. Since Jesus rested in the tomb on the sabbath, and was
risen by the next morning, he must have risen from the dead on the
sabbath, shortly before sunset. 72 hours before the sunset that ends the
sabbath is the sunset on Wednesday evening. Therefore Jesus was
crucified on Wednesday and rose as the sabbath ended 72 hours later.
Objection 2. Further, there were two sabbaths in the week Jesus was
crucified. One was the Passover day, 15 Nisan, which occurred on
Thursday. The next was the weekly sabbath, which occurred on Saturday.
Wednesday 14 Nisan was the preparation day mentioned in John 19:31,42,
the preparation for the Passover.
Objection 3. Further, Jesus was typified by the wave sheaf offering,
which took place on the day after the weekly sabbath during Passover
week. This is not when Jesus rose from the dead, for he had risen from
the dead 12 hours previously at the end of the weekly sabbath, but
rather when he came out of the tomb.
Objection 4. Further, the above objections are confirmed by the two
distinct rest periods when the women rested between buying and preparing
spices and going to the tomb to anoint Jesus’ body. The women had no
time to purchase spices on Wednesday between Jesus’ burial and sunset.
They rested on the sabbath that was Passover day on Thursday, and then
on Friday they purchased (Mark 16:1) and prepared the spices (Luke
23:56). Then they rested on the weekly sabbath (Luke 23:56), and went to
the tomb early on Sunday morning (Luke 24:1, Mark 16:2).
On the contrary, it is written – Jesus rose on the third day (Luke
24:46) and Sunday was the third day (Luke 24:21). Therefore he died on
Friday, the first day of three in a series.
I answer that Jesus died on the day of preparation (John 19:31,42),
which was a name for the day before the weekly sabbath. The weekly
sabbath was Saturday, and so Jesus died on Friday. Furthermore, Jesus
rose on the third day, counting inclusively, at the same time the wave
sheaf offering was performed, on the morning after Passover day (Lev 23:11).
Reply to objection 1
“Three days and three nights” is an idiomatic expression that, if taken
literally, contradicts other passages in Scripture. It stands in
contrast with multiple mentions of “the third day” in the New Testament.
If “the third day” is used in the Bible to refer to a day 72 hours from
the start of counting, only then can “three days and three nights” be
taken literally. Luke 13:32 shows Jesus speaking of “today, tomorrow,
and the third day” – so the third day is the day after tomorrow, if we
start counting today. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the
third day is Sunday. Similarly in Exodus 19:10-11, God tells Moses to
sanctify the people “today and tomorrow” and to be ready on “the third
day“. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the third day is
Sunday. Luke 23:21 confirms that the third day after Jesus died was Sunday.
Furthermore, Scripture shows that if Jesus had died on Wednesday, then
Sunday would have been the fifth day, and if Jesus had died on a
Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day. Scripture shows us such
a 72 hour period, lasting from the morning of one day, through the next
day, and the day after that, and ending on the morning of the fourth
day. Beginning in Acts 10:3, Cornelius has a vision at the ninth hour.
In verse 9, it is the next day, “on the morrow“. Verse 23 shows us the
day after that, “on the morrow“. Verse 24 shows us the day after that,
again “the morrow“. And on this day, in verse 30, Cornelius tells us
that his vision was four days ago that very hour. Cornelius counted this
way: today, tomorrow, the next day, and then the fourth day. If Jesus
had been crucified on a Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day,
but Luke 24:21 and Luke 24:46 tell us that Sunday was the third day. If
Jesus had been crucified on a Wednesday, Sunday would have been the
fifth day, not the third.
Therefore, following the way the authors of the Bible counted of three
or four days, we can be certain that if Jesus rose on Sunday, then he
had to have been crucified on Friday. “Three days and three nights” is
an idiomatic expression that emphasises three days, but not the number
of hours involved. Esther 4:16-5:1 confirms this.
Reply to objection 2
Nowhere does the Bible state clearly that there were two sabbaths that
week. This needs to be inferred after much convoluted rearrangement of
Scripture. In each of the Gospels we see a three day sequence presented
– preparation, the sabbath, and the third day. We see this in Matt
27:62-28:1; again in Mark 15:42-16:2; again in Luke 23:54-24:1; and
finally in John 19:31,42-20:1.
The “preparation” day meant only the day before the weekly sabbath, not
some preparation day for the Passover not called this in the Bible. The
Greek word on the New Testament is “παρασκευή“. The word is used six
times in the New Testament, all referring to the day Jesus was
crucified, and it is defined in Mark 15:42 as “the day before the
sabbath“. By the time of the New Testament, “sabbath” specifically
referred to the 7th day of the week. In the Greek of the time, the term
παρασκευή had become, for the Jews, a synonym for the day before the
weekly sabbath. No textual evidence to the contrary exists. The Didache,
a Christian document written between 70 and 120 AD, confirms that
παρασκευή is a day of the week used for fasting. The longer (and more
recent) version of St Ignatius of Antioch’s letter to the Trallians
(dating to about 300 AD) refers to three consecutive days – preparation,
the sabbath, and the first day – as being the days on which Jesus died,
rested, and rose.
Reply to objection 3
The wave sheaf offering after Passover represented Jesus’ rising from
the dead, and instruction is given in Lev 23:11. In keeping with the
usage of the word at the time Leviticus was written, “sabbath” could
refer to the weekly sabbath or to Passover in this verse. However, we
know it took place on the day after Passover, on 16 Nisan, whichever day
of the week it occurred. The first century AD historian Josephus
confirms that this was the Jewish interpretation of Lev 23:11, which
states that the wave sheaf offering is to take place after the sabbath
day, i.e. Passover day (Josephus, Antiquities 3.250–251), as does the
Targum of Jonathan from the previous century (Targum of Jonathan, XXXI).
Since 16 Nisan was therefore Sunday, 15 Nisan was on the weekly sabbath,
and therefore Passover and the weekly sabbath were on the same day that
year.
Furthermore, the argument that Jesus rose from the dead at the end of
the sabbath but didn’t exit the tomb until the next morning requires
that, if a 72 hour period is used, Jesus spent about 12 hours more than
72 hours in the tomb, even though he was only dead for 72 of those
hours. This would be in conflict with Matt 12:40, the verse being
interpreted by the objectors as being a literal time period.
Reply to objection 4
There are no two distinct rest periods for these women any more than
there are two distinct sabbaths that week. Luke 23:56 states clearly
that the women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died, and then
rested on the sabbath. The verse immediately following, Luke 24:1, shows
that on the first day of the week they took these prepared spices to the
tomb. There is no indication that there is an entire unmentioned day
between Luke 23:55 and Luke 23:56; in fact the text prevents this
interpretation. Mark 16:1 causes confusion for the objectors, but it can
be clarified by looking at the tenses. The objectors split Mark 16:1 and
Mark 16:2 into two events taking place on two separate days (Friday and
Sunday) with an unmentioned day in between. This is not the case. The
purchasing (ηγορασαν) is an act that took place in the past. When the
sabbath was past, the women had already bought the spices. This was not
a case of the women buying the spices once the sabbath had ended – it
was a case of the sabbath ending with the spices already bought
(prepared, in fact, the day Jesus died, as per Luke 23:56.) They didn’t
venture out at night, and so the next verse, Mark 16:2, follows
immediately without a day between verses 1 and 2. The women arrived at
the tomb, spices already bought and prepared.
Jesus died on preparation day, which can only mean Friday (Matt 27:62,
Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14,31,42
“On the third day” means that the first day was the day before yesterday
(Luke 13:32, Exodus 19:10-11)
Because “the third day” was Sunday, the day Jesus died was Friday
Had Jesus been in the tomb since Thursday, Sunday would have been the
fourth day (Acts 10:30)
The women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died (Luke 23:56)
Jesus was in the tomb on the sabbath
Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, Sunday (Luke 24:21,46)
The day after Passover was the wave sheaf offering (Lev 23:11), the day
Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:21,46)
The women arrived on Sunday morning to find the tomb empty
Robert
2017-04-04 00:33:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:12:13 -0700, tesla sTinker
Post by tesla sTinker
Luke, you must look in Luke.
Sundays Observance is set by the Old Testament. trueCatholic.
Jesus had said, He did not come to change the old law.
This is a true holy mystery of the true Catholic Church, The Power of
God, because yes, Jesus rose again on that same day. Luke delcares,
1st day of the week they did not find him inside the tomb. So, you must
use the other book. Some believe that to be monday, some sunday. But
even we know, the pagans doctored the clock with changes, just as today,
they have even removed hours from it, the real time of day.
Remember that thou also didst serve in Egypt, and the Lord thy God
brought thee out from thence with a strong hand, and a stretched out
arm. Therefore hath he commanded thee that thou shouldst observe the
sabbath day.
(Deu 5:15 DRB)

The Sabbath day in the time of Jesus was still the 7th day, not the
1st. Whether you want to call Tuesday, Friday is up to your mind, but
it does not alter the scripture.
Patrick
2017-04-04 11:43:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:12:13 -0700, tesla sTinker
Post by tesla sTinker
Luke, you must look in Luke.
Sundays Observance is set by the Old Testament. trueCatholic.
Jesus had said, He did not come to change the old law.
This is a true holy mystery of the true Catholic Church, The Power of
God, because yes, Jesus rose again on that same day. Luke delcares,
1st day of the week they did not find him inside the tomb. So, you must
use the other book. Some believe that to be monday, some sunday. But
even we know, the pagans doctored the clock with changes, just as today,
they have even removed hours from it, the real time of day.
Remember that thou also didst serve in Egypt, and the Lord thy God
brought thee out from thence with a strong hand, and a stretched out
arm. Therefore hath he commanded thee that thou shouldst observe the
sabbath day.
(Deu 5:15 DRB)
The Sabbath day in the time of Jesus was still the 7th day, not the
1st. Whether you want to call Tuesday, Friday is up to your mind, but
it does not alter the scripture.
I don't recall any direct quotes from GOD about which day was the
Sabbath. Just remember the week starts on Monday.
And God rested on the seventh day.
Get over it.
tesla sTinker
2017-04-03 23:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Luke, you must look in Luke.
Sundays Observance is set by the Old Testament. trueCatholic.
Jesus had said, He did not come to change the old law.
This is a true holy mystery of the true Catholic Church, The Power of
God, because yes, Jesus rose again on that same day. Luke delcares,
1st day of the week they did not find him inside the tomb. So, you must
use the other book. Some believe that to be monday, some sunday. But
even we know, the pagans doctored the clock with changes, just as today,
they have even removed hours from it, the real time of day.

And since we are the weak administration of the true remnant, which all
of you are not a member of us but continue in your heresy, we use the
real bible, not the invalid books
that you all so seem to not want to quote all the time instead. which
is plain nonsense. You will learn the wrong way. KJV is an invalid
book and is not authentic text at all... YOI all have been warned by
trueCatholic.

verse 11, even says, you would believe it is just idle tales, and not
the real truth. And you know what, you all certainly do do this in your
bogus heaven on earth world that you all do live in...$$$

Avoiding his true Catholic Church and truths. Small Church indeed it
is. Today....

true Bible link,

Luke 24

http://www.truecarpentry.org/tccwww/cathwww/dogma/catholicbooks/HolyBible/NewTestament/Luke.htm#chpt24

AND on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came
to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.

2 And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre.

3 And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

4 And it came to pass, as they were astonished in their mind at this,
behold, two men stood by them, in shining apparel.

5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their countenance towards the
ground, they said unto them: Why seek you the living with the dead?

6 He is not here, but is risen. Remember how he spoke unto you, when he
was in Galilee,

7 Saying: The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men,
and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

8 And they remembered his words.

9 And going back from the sepulchre, they told all these things to the
eleven, and to all the rest.

10 And it was Mary Magdalen, and Joanna, and Mary of James, and the
other women that were with them, who told these things to the apostles.

11 And these words seemed to them as idle tales; and they did not
believe them.

12 But Peter rising up, ran to the sepulchre, and stooping down, he saw
the linen cloths laid by themselves; and went away wondering in himself
at that which was come to pass.
Post by stephen
3 days and 3 nights – from when till when?
Did Jesus die on a Friday and rise from the dead on a Sunday? Or did he
die on a Wednesday or Thursday? And did he rise from the dead on a Saturday?
Various Christian groups have objected that the traditional
Friday-to-Sunday timing is wrong. In particular, the offshoots of
Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God have tried to argue this
point, mostly because they worship on Saturdays instead of Sundays, and
if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead on a Sunday, then Sunday observance
is pointless. Their arguments are lengthy, but they can be refuted with
a few simple explanations.
It is important to note here that in the Bible, days begin at sunset.
This is most relevant here in the crucifixion narratives, which show the
sabbath about to begin as sunset approached on the day Jesus died.
Matt 12:40 (KJV) – For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the
whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in
the heart of the earth.
Objection 1. It would seem that “three days and three nights” is a
phrase that must be taken literally, and therefore Jesus spent 72 hours
in the tomb in order for his words in Matthew to be true. The Bible does
not count inclusively, and if Jesus was in the tomb for three days, that
too means a 72 hour time period. If Jesus was buried shortly before
sunset (John 19:42) then he must have risen shortly before sunset 72
hours later. Since Jesus rested in the tomb on the sabbath, and was
risen by the next morning, he must have risen from the dead on the
sabbath, shortly before sunset. 72 hours before the sunset that ends the
sabbath is the sunset on Wednesday evening. Therefore Jesus was
crucified on Wednesday and rose as the sabbath ended 72 hours later.
Objection 2. Further, there were two sabbaths in the week Jesus was
crucified. One was the Passover day, 15 Nisan, which occurred on
Thursday. The next was the weekly sabbath, which occurred on Saturday.
Wednesday 14 Nisan was the preparation day mentioned in John 19:31,42,
the preparation for the Passover.
Objection 3. Further, Jesus was typified by the wave sheaf offering,
which took place on the day after the weekly sabbath during Passover
week. This is not when Jesus rose from the dead, for he had risen from
the dead 12 hours previously at the end of the weekly sabbath, but
rather when he came out of the tomb.
Objection 4. Further, the above objections are confirmed by the two
distinct rest periods when the women rested between buying and preparing
spices and going to the tomb to anoint Jesus’ body. The women had no
time to purchase spices on Wednesday between Jesus’ burial and sunset.
They rested on the sabbath that was Passover day on Thursday, and then
on Friday they purchased (Mark 16:1) and prepared the spices (Luke
23:56). Then they rested on the weekly sabbath (Luke 23:56), and went to
the tomb early on Sunday morning (Luke 24:1, Mark 16:2).
On the contrary, it is written – Jesus rose on the third day (Luke
24:46) and Sunday was the third day (Luke 24:21). Therefore he died on
Friday, the first day of three in a series.
I answer that Jesus died on the day of preparation (John 19:31,42),
which was a name for the day before the weekly sabbath. The weekly
sabbath was Saturday, and so Jesus died on Friday. Furthermore, Jesus
rose on the third day, counting inclusively, at the same time the wave
sheaf offering was performed, on the morning after Passover day (Lev 23:11).
Reply to objection 1
“Three days and three nights” is an idiomatic expression that, if taken
literally, contradicts other passages in Scripture. It stands in
contrast with multiple mentions of “the third day” in the New Testament.
If “the third day” is used in the Bible to refer to a day 72 hours from
the start of counting, only then can “three days and three nights” be
taken literally. Luke 13:32 shows Jesus speaking of “today, tomorrow,
and the third day” – so the third day is the day after tomorrow, if we
start counting today. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the
third day is Sunday. Similarly in Exodus 19:10-11, God tells Moses to
sanctify the people “today and tomorrow” and to be ready on “the third
day“. If today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then the third day is
Sunday. Luke 23:21 confirms that the third day after Jesus died was Sunday.
Furthermore, Scripture shows that if Jesus had died on Wednesday, then
Sunday would have been the fifth day, and if Jesus had died on a
Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day. Scripture shows us such
a 72 hour period, lasting from the morning of one day, through the next
day, and the day after that, and ending on the morning of the fourth
day. Beginning in Acts 10:3, Cornelius has a vision at the ninth hour.
In verse 9, it is the next day, “on the morrow“. Verse 23 shows us the
day after that, “on the morrow“. Verse 24 shows us the day after that,
again “the morrow“. And on this day, in verse 30, Cornelius tells us
that his vision was four days ago that very hour. Cornelius counted this
way: today, tomorrow, the next day, and then the fourth day. If Jesus
had been crucified on a Thursday, Sunday would have been the fourth day,
but Luke 24:21 and Luke 24:46 tell us that Sunday was the third day. If
Jesus had been crucified on a Wednesday, Sunday would have been the
fifth day, not the third.
Therefore, following the way the authors of the Bible counted of three
or four days, we can be certain that if Jesus rose on Sunday, then he
had to have been crucified on Friday. “Three days and three nights” is
an idiomatic expression that emphasises three days, but not the number
of hours involved. Esther 4:16-5:1 confirms this.
Reply to objection 2
Nowhere does the Bible state clearly that there were two sabbaths that
week. This needs to be inferred after much convoluted rearrangement of
Scripture. In each of the Gospels we see a three day sequence presented
– preparation, the sabbath, and the third day. We see this in Matt
27:62-28:1; again in Mark 15:42-16:2; again in Luke 23:54-24:1; and
finally in John 19:31,42-20:1.
The “preparation” day meant only the day before the weekly sabbath, not
some preparation day for the Passover not called this in the Bible. The
Greek word on the New Testament is “παρασκευή“. The word is used six
times in the New Testament, all referring to the day Jesus was
crucified, and it is defined in Mark 15:42 as “the day before the
sabbath“. By the time of the New Testament, “sabbath” specifically
referred to the 7th day of the week. In the Greek of the time, the term
παρασκευή had become, for the Jews, a synonym for the day before the
weekly sabbath. No textual evidence to the contrary exists. The Didache,
a Christian document written between 70 and 120 AD, confirms that
παρασκευή is a day of the week used for fasting. The longer (and more
recent) version of St Ignatius of Antioch’s letter to the Trallians
(dating to about 300 AD) refers to three consecutive days – preparation,
the sabbath, and the first day – as being the days on which Jesus died,
rested, and rose.
Reply to objection 3
The wave sheaf offering after Passover represented Jesus’ rising from
the dead, and instruction is given in Lev 23:11. In keeping with the
usage of the word at the time Leviticus was written, “sabbath” could
refer to the weekly sabbath or to Passover in this verse. However, we
know it took place on the day after Passover, on 16 Nisan, whichever day
of the week it occurred. The first century AD historian Josephus
confirms that this was the Jewish interpretation of Lev 23:11, which
states that the wave sheaf offering is to take place after the sabbath
day, i.e. Passover day (Josephus, Antiquities 3.250–251), as does the
Targum of Jonathan from the previous century (Targum of Jonathan, XXXI).
Since 16 Nisan was therefore Sunday, 15 Nisan was on the weekly sabbath,
and therefore Passover and the weekly sabbath were on the same day that
year.
Furthermore, the argument that Jesus rose from the dead at the end of
the sabbath but didn’t exit the tomb until the next morning requires
that, if a 72 hour period is used, Jesus spent about 12 hours more than
72 hours in the tomb, even though he was only dead for 72 of those
hours. This would be in conflict with Matt 12:40, the verse being
interpreted by the objectors as being a literal time period.
Reply to objection 4
There are no two distinct rest periods for these women any more than
there are two distinct sabbaths that week. Luke 23:56 states clearly
that the women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died, and then
rested on the sabbath. The verse immediately following, Luke 24:1, shows
that on the first day of the week they took these prepared spices to the
tomb. There is no indication that there is an entire unmentioned day
between Luke 23:55 and Luke 23:56; in fact the text prevents this
interpretation. Mark 16:1 causes confusion for the objectors, but it can
be clarified by looking at the tenses. The objectors split Mark 16:1 and
Mark 16:2 into two events taking place on two separate days (Friday and
Sunday) with an unmentioned day in between. This is not the case. The
purchasing (ηγορασαν) is an act that took place in the past. When the
sabbath was past, the women had already bought the spices. This was not
a case of the women buying the spices once the sabbath had ended – it
was a case of the sabbath ending with the spices already bought
(prepared, in fact, the day Jesus died, as per Luke 23:56.) They didn’t
venture out at night, and so the next verse, Mark 16:2, follows
immediately without a day between verses 1 and 2. The women arrived at
the tomb, spices already bought and prepared.
Jesus died on preparation day, which can only mean Friday (Matt 27:62,
Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14,31,42
“On the third day” means that the first day was the day before yesterday
(Luke 13:32, Exodus 19:10-11)
Because “the third day” was Sunday, the day Jesus died was Friday
Had Jesus been in the tomb since Thursday, Sunday would have been the
fourth day (Acts 10:30)
The women prepared the spices on the same day Jesus died (Luke 23:56)
Jesus was in the tomb on the sabbath
Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, Sunday (Luke 24:21,46)
The day after Passover was the wave sheaf offering (Lev 23:11), the day
Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:21,46)
The women arrived on Sunday morning to find the tomb empty
Robert
2017-04-04 00:39:16 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:17:57 -0700, tesla sTinker
Post by tesla sTinker
Avoiding his true Catholic Church and truths. Small Church indeed it
is. Today....
You have never proven that statement.

You also cannot show that Jesus was a Catholic.
Patrick
2017-04-04 11:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:17:57 -0700, tesla sTinker
Post by tesla sTinker
Avoiding his true Catholic Church and truths. Small Church indeed it
is. Today....
You have never proven that statement.
You also cannot show that Jesus was a Catholic.
He wasn't.
He also wasn't a born again.
Nor was he justified.

You need to read about Jesus, His words, his actions, deeds.
duke
2017-04-04 12:18:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert
On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 16:17:57 -0700, tesla sTinker
Post by tesla sTinker
Avoiding his true Catholic Church and truths. Small Church indeed it
is. Today....
You have never proven that statement.
You also cannot show that Jesus was a Catholic.
That's got to be the most ridiculous statement ever made.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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